Cycling with Fish

[pettygil]

Is it inhumane to cycle my tank with hardy fish? I know that if I cycle my fish tank with fish that that I should do 50 percent water change every day. I am also adding a bottle of bacteria to the tank. I'm using Quick start by Api to help cycle my tank.

 

[Andy Sager]

That's the only way we did it back in the day and if you used the correct fish, the fish survived. The key is to not let the ammonia or nitrite levels get to a dangerous level.
As for doing water changes, doing it daily will reduce the amount of ammonia the nitrifying bacteria need to survive so the actual cycling of the aquarium is going to take longer. With products like Seachem's PRIME or SAFE which will detoxify the ammonia and nitrites, you can reduce your water changes to every 2-3 days and reduce the amount to 20%-25%. The required amount tho is going to depend on the actual levels. If you are using bottled bacteria, you should not have too high a level unless you add too many fish before the cycling process has concluded. Keep in mind that when your nitrite level returns to zero, it means that there is only enough nitrifying bacteria present to handle the load that is in the tank at the time so you should still add small amounts of fish at a time. With this said, a better option is to get some filtering material ( floss or filter cartridge) from an existing cycled tank that is disease free. Bacteria are more prevalent in highly oxygenated areas of the aquarium and the filter is where that is more than inside the aquarium.

Get yourself a good test kit and test daily.

 

[pettygil]

So are you saying to do water change every 2 to 3 days, and to do 25% water change??

I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying. I hope API quick start is ok to use. Api usually has good products.

I tried to cycle with my Betta and he never made it. He died and one of my guppies died in the other tank. I know feeder fish are very hardy fish and so are livebearer's, not sure what type. All I know is I think they were endlers. They survived the cycling process. I have two 6.5 gallon tanks, not cycled, and one 20 gallon tank that tank is cycled.

 

[Andy Sager]

So are you saying to do water change every 2 to 3 days, and to do 25% water change??

I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying. I hope API quick start is ok to use. Api usually has good products.

Hope this is more clear.
This info applies if your water's Ph is higher than 7.0. **

If you are using a bacteria source, you can reduce your water change schedule to every 2-3 days ONLY IF you are also using a product like Seachem's PRIME or SAFE or other products to detoxify the ammonia and nitrites. (Each dose of these 2 products are good for 2 days. ) IF your ammonia level is under 1 ppm, you can do smaller amounts of water per change. Anything close to 1 ppm and above you should do a larger water change.
When it comes to Nitrites, it's important to use a detoxifier product as Nitrites will kill fish faster than ammonia. You need to see a rise in nitrites so that the bacteria that converts it to nitrates can grow but your water change amount changes the higher the level gets. You'll need to take action at a level above .5 ppm. The actual level that is toxic to the fish is different for different fish so you need to use strong hardy fish for cycling the tank. What's nice about Seachem's PRIME is that it it doesn't remove the nitrites but makes them non toxic to the fish while allowing for the nitrifying bacteria to consume them.

As for what bacteria source to use if not using something like used filter media or sponge filter squeezings, I favor Fritzyme #7 or FritzZyme TurboStart 700. I started using the #7 when it first came out and found it to be very effective. The turbostart is new to me but I hear great things about it.


** In regards to if your water's Ph is below 7.0: Toxic ammonia is naturally converted to less toxic (almost non toxic) ammonium in water with a Ph value under 7.0. This means that your fish are not going to suffer from ammonia issues so no need to use the detoxifier products. You will need to keep your Ph between 6.5 and 6.9 in order to keep your fish safe. If you go below the 6.5, you reduce the growth of the nitrifying bacteria so your tank never cycles. If you go above 7.0, the ammonium become toxic ammonia.

Temperature will also have an effect on the cycling. 80-83 degrees will help the bacteria form and reproduce faster. Temps closer to 70 degrees greatly reduces the speed in which the bacteria grow. The higher temps will require you to have good aeration in the tank for the fish as higher temps reduces oxygen levels in the water.

What you need to understand is that there are no "standards" that applies to everything when it comes to cycling an aquarium. What you do or have to do all depends on what your readings are.

Hope this helps.

 

[Colin_T]

There's no such thing as a hardy fish when it comes to ammonia or nitrite poisoning. Any fish from a fish farm is inbred and not going to do well if ammonia levels go up, and it's made worse if the pH of the water is above 7.0. Wild fish are no better at tolerating ammonia or nitrite in the water.

If you want to cycle the tank with fish in, have a few live plants, don't feed too much, do regular water changes to keep ammonia levels close to 0ppm.

The fish constantly produce ammonia so even if you do a huge water change each day, they will create more ammonia before the next water change and this is sufficient to feed the filter bacteria.

 

[Magaratz]

I’ve always done a fish in cycle and found Zebra Danios tend to do quite well in the process. Just don’t bring in any bottom dwellers too soon or over populate too quickly.

 

[pettygil]

I have high ph of 8.0

I have high pH, even with my cycled tank, like 8.0 pH. Do I need to use something to drop pH? I checked ammonia, and all is well there. My water hardness is also high. I tested ammonia from my tap, and it reads 0.5.

How do I drop the pH without live plants? All my plants are fake.

 

[Andy Sager]

I have high pH, even with my cycled tank, like 8.0 pH. Do I need to use something to drop pH? I checked ammonia, and all is well there. My water hardness is also high. I tested ammonia from my tap, and it reads 0.5.

How do I drop the pH without live plants? All my plants are fake.

Unless you plan on getting fish where the Ph and hardness matters, I wouldn't change your water. This just means that you need to use a product to detoxify it while fish in cycling. I recommend Seachem's PRIME.

This also means that you need to be aware when doing water changes that you continue to use the product to detoxify whatever ammonia is coming in from your tap. You can confirm with your water company that they are using chloramine or how the ammonia got into your water.

As a side note, if you can add filtering material from your cycled tank to your new tank, the ammonia in your water can help cycle that tank without using any fish. Your tank will be "cycled" when the ammonia level reaches 0 and it shouldn't take long. At that point check your nitrites and that too should be zero. At that point, ( ammonia and nitrites at zero) you are fully cycled and can start adding fish but do so slowly so as not to stress the bacteria bed too much. There will be slight increases in your ammonia level when you add fish but the existing bacteria bed should catch up quickly.
Fish in cycling is a longer process due to not allowing the ammonia or nitrite levels to get too high while forming the bacteria bed. Since fresh used filter material already has an established bacteria bed, things will go much faster.

 

[pettygil]

is no2 3 too high for my fish tank?

Nitrite (NO₂) – nitrifying bacteria living in the filter and aquarium convert ammonia to nitrite (NO₂) is reading 3 ppm Does this mean my tank is cycling? Should I do a WC or leave it alone? I have a fish in the tank brcause I'm trying to cycle my tank.

 

[Andy Sager]

Nitrite (NO₂) – nitrifying bacteria living in the filter and aquarium convert ammonia to nitrite (NO₂) is reading 3 ppm Does this mean my tank is cycling? Should I do a WC or leave it alone? I have a fish in the tank brcause I'm trying to cycle my tank.

If you don't have PRIME or another product that can detoxify the nitrites, doing a water change will lower the level but prolong the time it takes for the tank to finish cycling. What kind(s) of fish do you have in the tank?

 

[pettygil]

I have 1 cory fish in my 6.5 gallon. He is big enough. As soon as the tank cycles I will put the cory in my 20 gallon. I'm also going to buy more corys for my 20 gallon tank. Like 5 corys, and then the one Cory I have now will be 6 Cory's for my 20 gallon tank.

I do have quick start with bacteria. And water conditioner. I have 1 cory in my 6.5 gallon tank. Should I do a 50 percent wc?

Once my tank cycles I'm going to buy 2 Betta's. I have two 6.5 gallon tanks. After my 6.5 gallon tank cycles I am going to take cory out and place him in the 20 gallon.

I've had my 20 gallon tank for 3 months and my nitrite and nitrate are always at 0. Does that mean my tank is not cycled? I also have small amounts of Ammonia in my 20 gallon.

 

[Andy Sager]

I do have quick start with bacteria. And water conditioner. I have 1 cory in my 6.5 gallon tank. Should I do a 50 percent wc?

I'd do a 25% water change then add your quick start then keep testing to see the nitrites ( and ammonia ) rise and fall and your nitrates rise.

 

[Andy Sager]

Once my tank cycles I'm going to buy 2 Betta's. I have two 6.5 gallon tanks. After my 6.5 gallon tank cycles I am going to take cory out and place him in the 20 gallon.

Just to confirm, you will be getting to bettas to put one in each 6.5 gallon tank. NOT getting 2 males for one 6.5 gallon tank.

 

[Andy Sager]

I've had my 20 gallon tank for 3 months and my nitrite and nitrate are always at 0. Does that mean my tank is not cycled? I also have small amounts of Ammonia in my 20 gallon.

If you are still showing ammonia in your water after 3 months and no nitrites or nitrates, your tank is not cycled and for some reason, you are not developing the nitrosomas ( or similar) which convert ammonia to nitrites which would mean you will not develop the Nitrobactors ( or similar) that convert nitrite to nitrate. That said, I would confirm through either another test kit or taking a sample of your water to a local shop for testing to confirm that you actually do still have ammonia present. Your timeline does not sound right for you to still be seeing ammonia. The ammonia in your tap water should be getting consumed by now.

 

[pettygil]

It shows me i need a water change.

iron 0
copper 0
nitrate 100
nitrite 5
ph 8.0

Im doing a 50% water change and right away.

 

[Andy Sager]

I shows me i need a water change.
iron 0
copper 0
nitrate 100
nitrite 5
ph 8.0
Im doing a 50% water change and right away.

This is the 20 gal? What about ammonia?

 

[pettygil]

wc on my 6.5 gallon tank

After wc on my 6.5 gallon tank

nitrate 25
nitrite 1
ph 8.0
Ammonia 0.25

 

[pettygil]

Ammonia is 0.25

If you don't have PRIME or another product that can detoxify the nitrites, doing a water change will lower the level but prolong the time it takes for the tank to finish cycling. What kind(s) of fish do you have in the tank?

This is the 20 gal? What about ammonia?

My 20 gallon is 0.25 Ammonia. My 6.5 tank is at: 0.25 Ammonia.

 

[Andy Sager]

after wc on my 6.5 gallon tank
nitarte 25
nitritte 1
ph 8.0
Ammonia is 0.25

Doesn't make sense. In order to have nitrates that high you need to have a bacteria bed ( unless your tap water is that level) already formed. If the bed is already formed, the ammonia should be 0. You said you have ammonia in your tap water. Now check for nitrates as well.

 

[Andy Sager]

My 20 gallon is 0.25 Ammonia. My 6.5 tank is at: 0.25 Ammonia.

For the 20 gal:
Unless your tap water has nitrates, your tank is in the process of cycling because nitrates don't usually rise until ammonia is down to zero. In order to have nitrates that high, your nitrites should be at 0. Your test results don't make sense. You really should have your local store test your water from all your tanks to confirm your readings.