do i really need all these chemicals in my planted tank ?

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leeroy

Aquarium Advice Newbie
Joined
Jun 15, 2019
Messages
7
Location
knoxvegas,tennessee
i have a question about my 75G planted...but 1st off i hope im posting this in the correct area, feel free to correct me if i get out my lane,lol and secondly, i will try to provide you with enough info to give me an answer too but please feel free to ask anything ive left out. im drawn to plants that are heavy root feeders such as the ole amazon sword and a crypto here and there because you just gotta throw the root tabs at them and pretty much cant go wrong, lol. and its not that they arent growing or even not doing well but you always wonder if it could be better...ive got an all natural filtrations system using the largest HOB i could find with pre-filtering foam on the intake and inside the filter itself too where cartridges would normally go because i read somewhere that those carbon and charcoal based filter cartridge's and also the white ammonia removing crystals would also filter any liquid fertilizers from the water and i can understand the need for a liquid fertilizer and plan to add that into my routine now that im not using any charcoal or ammonia remover anymore, but dayummmm do i really need iron and carbon too ? seems like a lotta chemicals but then again, what do i know ?! lol...i would also like to pre- thank anyone for reading and especially if you have answers, haha...i do not have nor do i desire to get into CO2 mostly due to the expense :banghead:

peace and love to everyone all over the world,

leeroy:dance:
 
Plants need co2. But whether you need to increase the co2 in their environment or they have enough in your current setup depends on a number of factors.

Here are some scientific facts:
Light drives photosynthesis
Co2 is needed for photosynthesis
The more light striking the plant the more co2 it will need.
Low light levels alleviates co2 requirements.

KH is carbonate hardness. Most submerged plants can take in carbonates and change it to carbon dioxide inside the plant.

Hard water areas have lots of carbonates so plants in tanks from hard water areas can generally do very well without additional co2.

Hard water usually also contains lots of nitrogen and iron and other minerals the plants need so as long as the water is changed frequently and the light is not too high most plants do well.

So first thing to do is check your tap water to see whether its hard or soft.

Where else do aquariums get elevated levels of co2?

If you have lots of livestock you get more co2 production.
Microbial activity produces carbon dioxide.
Agitating the surface with an airstone or sponge filter will facilitate gas transfer.

So in general terms if the plants are growing, not showing signs of translucency then co2 injection should not be required.

As for nutrients the plants cannot survive without them and they will grow at the rate of which the limiting nutrient is. If they cannot get enough of a certain mineral they will show deficiency symptoms.

If you are worried you can buy an all in one liquid fertiliser such as Thrive or TNC complete that will cover all bases nutrient wise.
 
Amazon swords and crypts will do just fine with a half decent light, root tabs, a gravel or sand substrate and an all in one fertiliser.

Be careful now you have removed you ammonia absorbing filter media. If it was working correctly and absorbing ammonia, then it could have starved the microbes responsible for your cycle and now its gone there is nothing to remove ammonia from your water. It could now take a while for your tank to cycle. Ammonia absorbing media is generally a bad idea because it prevents your tank from cycling, and once it get used up and stops working (or in your case its removed) you can suddenly see ammonia where there was none before. Letting a tank cycle properly is far more beneficial long term than relying on chemical media to remove waste.

In terms of "do i really need all these chemicals" ammonia removing chemical media and carbon are 2 that in most cases do nothing useful.
 
when you say Co2 do you refer to co2 injected tanks or just using some of the carbon off the shelf, like the co2 booster which is pretty much a liquid, i think,lol...ive never tried it yet...ill try to get yall some photos of my setups asap, i also have a 30G tank for Tiger Barba and i looooove it. i got standard, gold body with black stripes kind and ive gotten 5 albinos and i would really like to add some greens too...

and thank you so very much for commenting !
 
i have some media bags and amonia crystals, i could pop one in if you think it will help but im really wanting to get a "natural" type flow going, ya know ?! lol but ive been running the entire last year with the foam rubber type filters you can get off aquarium co-op. ill stuff the back side full, where any cartridges might have gone and then a round pre-filter on the intake line and i havent had any major problems...i do a 30- 40% percent water change bout every 3-4 weeks also. and of course i use api water conditioner with stress+ slime coat protection. does that sound like im doing it right ? any tips or pointers please?
 
The active ingredient in CO2 booster products is glutaraldehyde, which is used to sterilise medical equipment and is a mild algaecide. It provides no CO2 and all it does is remove a little algae from the leafs of plants so they can better take up CO2 from the water. It is harmful to fish and some plants so you have to be careful not to overdose. Given the dubious benefits is it worth using these products given the risks?

The plants you mention arent likely to need additional CO2 from whats available in the water.

If your tank has been running a year then it will have cycled by now. You wont need anything to deal with ammonia. A monthly water change doesnt sound like a lot, but what are your water parameters? Preferably taken before a water change.
 
Carbon is a small black granulated substance that removes chemicals and heavy metals from water. You do not need this in most aquariums. If you have it in an aquarium and use a plant fertiliser, the carbon will remove most of the fertiliser. Carbon will also remove medications used to treat fish. The only time you use carbon is if you have heavy metals or poisonous chemicals in the water. Then the water should be filtered through carbon before it is drunk by us or used in an aquarium.

Ammogon/ Zeolite is a white granulated substance that feels a bit like chalk but doesn't crumble like chalk. It's size it similar to large pieces of aquarium gravel (3-6mm). It is used to remove ammonia from water. You do not want this in an aquarium or filter because it stops the beneficial filter bacteria from developing and keeping the water free of ammonia and nitrite.

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You mention "all natural filter". What do you mean by that?
Most filters should have sponge/s in them and that is about all they need. Some have ceramic or plastic beads/ rods that are meant to hold good filter bacteria but sponge also does that. If your filter has sponges in, and it doesn't have carbon or Zeolite, then it's fine.

How often do you clean the filter and how do you clean it?
Established biological filters should be cleaned once a month. An established biological filter is one that has been running continuously without Zeolite for more than 2 months. The filter media/ materials (sponges, ceramic beads, etc) can be squeezed/ washed out in a bucket of aquarium water and the media is re-used in the filter. The bucket of dirty water gets poured on the lawn or garden outside.

The round sponge on the filter intake can also be washed in a bucket of tank water and the sponge re-used. Sponges last for years and only need replacing when they start to break down/ fall apart.

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Avoid liquid carbon dioxide (CO2) that you buy off the shelf at pet shops because they usually contain Glutaraldehyde, which is a disinfectant and is poisonous to aquatic organisms.

Bottled CO2 comes in a gas cyclinder or sometimes a small can, and is available from some pet shops or online. You can also buy it from companies that sell different types of gas in bottles. It is simply carbon dioxide that has been compressed into a gas cyclinder. There are different grades of gas that you can buy, these usually fall into 2 categories (medical grade and industrial grade). Medical grade is cleaner and only contains that particular gas, whereas industrial grade can contain other gasses as well.

In my opinion, you do not need to add carbon dioxide to an aquarium. There is plenty of CO2 in the tank and it's produced all day every day by the fish, shrimp, snails and bacteria. It also gets into the tank through the water surface or an air pump that pumps air into the aquarium water. And the plants release a small amount at night when resting.

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You should try to do water change more frequently. I like to do 50-75% water change every week so the water is refreshed regularly. You should gravel clean the substrate any time you do a water change. The reason I like doing weekly water changes is because it helps reduce disease organisms in the water, dilutes nutrients that build up from fish food and waste breaking down in the water, and helps keep the fish healthier. The water changes also replace minerals that might have been used up by the plants.

If you don't want to do a water change every week, at least do it once every 2 weeks.

Fish have never died from getting a regular water change, but they do die from living in dirty aquariums that don't get enough water changes.
 
AQUARIUM PLANTS 1.01


TURNING LIGHTS ON AND OFF
Stress from tank lights coming on when the room is dark can be an issue. Fish don't have eyelids and don't tolerate going from complete dark to bright light (or vice versa) instantly.

In the morning open the curtains or turn the room light on at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the tank light on. This will reduce the stress on the fish and they won't go from a dark tank to a bright tank instantly.

At night turn the room light on and then turn the tank light off. Wait at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the room light out. This allows the fish to settle down for the night instead of going from a brightly lit tank to complete darkness instantly.

Try to have the lights on at the same time each day. Use a timer if possible.

If you don't have live plants in the tank, you only need the light on for a few hours in the evening. You might turn them on at 4 or 5pm and off at 9pm.

If you do have live plants in the tank, you can have the lights on for 8-16 hours a day but the fish and plants need 8 hours of darkness to rest. Most people with live plants in their aquarium will have the lights on for 8-12 hours a day.


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LIGHTING TIMES
Most aquarium plants like a bit of light and if you only have the light on for a couple of hours a day, they struggle. If the light doesn't have a high enough wattage they also struggle. Try having the tank lights on for 10-12 hours a day.

If you get lots of green algae then reduce the light by an hour a day and monitor the algae over the next 2 weeks.
If you don't get any green algae on the glass then increase the lighting period by an hour and monitor it.
If you get a small amount of algae then the lighting time is about right.

Some plants will close their leaves up when they have had sufficient light. Ambulia, Hygrophilas and a few others close their top set of leaves first, then the next set and so on down the stem. When you see this happening, wait an hour after the leaves have closed up against the stem and then turn lights off.

Plant lights should have equal amount of red and blue light and a bit less green light.


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TWO LIGHT UNITS
If you have two light units on the tank, put them on timers and have one come on first, then an hour later the second one can come on. It will be less stressful for the fish.

In the evening, turn the first light off and wait an hour, then have the second light go out.

If the lights have a low, medium and high intensity setting, have them on low in the morning, then increase it to medium after a couple of hours, and then high for the main part of the day. In the evening, reverse this and have the medium setting for a few hours, then low. Then turn the lights off.


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LIST OF PLANTS TO TRY
Some good plants to try include Ambulia, Hygrophila polysperma, H. ruba/ rubra, Elodia (during summer, but don't buy it in winter because it falls apart), Hydrilla, common Amazon sword plant, narrow or twisted/ spiral Vallis, Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides/ cornuta).

The Water Sprite normally floats on the surface but can also be planted in the substrate. The other plants should be planted in the gravel.

Ambulia, H. polysperma, Elodia/ Hydrilla and Vallis are tall plants that do well along the back. Rotala macranda is a medium/ tallish red plant that usually does well.

H. ruba/ rubra is a medium height plant that looks good on the sides of the tank.

Cryptocorynes are small/ medium plants that are taller than pygmy chain swords but shorter than H. rubra. They also come in a range of colours, mostly different shades of green, brown or purplish red. Crypts are not the easiest plant to grow but can do well if they are healthy to begin with and are not disturbed after planting in the tank.

Most Amazon sword plants can get pretty big and are usually kept in the middle of the tank as a show piece. There is an Ozelot sword plant that has brown spots on green leaves, and a red ruffle sword plant (name may vary depending on where you live) with deep red leaves.

There is a pygmy chain sword plant that is small and does well in the front of the tank.


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GROWING PLANTS IN POTS
We use to grow some plants (usually swords, crypts, Aponogetons and water lilies) in 1 or 2 litre plastic icecream containers. You put an inch of gravel in the bottom of the container, then spread a thin layer of granulated garden fertiliser over the gravel. Put a 1/4inch (6mm) thick layer of red/ orange clay over the fertiliser. Dry the clay first and crush it into a powder. Then cover that with more gravel.

You put the plants in the gravel and as they grow, their roots hit the clay and fertiliser and they take off and go nuts. The clay stops the fertiliser leaching into the water.

You can smear silicon on the outside of the buckets and stick gravel or sand to them so it is less conspicuous. Or you can let algae grow on them and the containers turn green.

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We did plants in pots for a couple of reasons.
1) I was working in an aquaculture facility and we grew and sold live plants to shops. Some of the shops wanted advanced plants in pots so we did that.

2) Plants like sword plants love nutrients and have big root systems so they needed more gravel and big pots. When given ideal conditions these plants would produce lots of runners with new plants on and we got more plants to sell.

3) Most of the tanks only had a thin layer of substrate that was nowhere near thick enough for plants to grow in so having them in pots allowed us to grow plants in tanks with minimal gravel in the tank.


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TRUE AQUATIC VS MARSH/ TERRESTRIAL PLANTS
Lots of plants are sold as aquarium plants and most are marsh plants that do really well when their roots are in water and the rest of the plant is above water. Some marsh plants will do well underwater too.

Hair grass is not a true aquatic plant, neither is Anubias.

Some common marsh plants include Amazon sword plants, Cryptocorynes, Hygrophila sp, Rotala sp, Ludwigia sp, Bacopa sp. These plant do reasonably well underwater.

True aquatic plants include Ambulia, Cabomba, Hornwort, Elodia, Hydrilla and Vallis.

The main difference between marsh plants and true aquatic plants is the stem. True aquatics have a soft flexible stem with air bubbles in it. These bubbles help the plant float and remain buoyant in the water column.

Marsh plants have a rigid stem and these plants can remain standing upright when removed from water. Whereas true aquatic plants will fall over/ collapse when removed from water.


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IRON BASED PLANT FERTILISER
If you add an iron based aquarium plant fertiliser, it will help most aquarium plants do well. The liquid iron based aquarium plant fertilisers tend to be better than the tablet forms, although you can push the tablets under the roots of plants and that works well.

You use an iron (Fe) test kit to monitor iron levels and keep them at 1mg/l (1ppm).

I used Sera Florena liquid plant fertiliser but there are other brands too.


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CARBON DIOXIDE (CO2)
There is no point adding carbon dioxide (CO2) until you have the lights and nutrients worked out. Even then you don't need CO2 unless the tank is full of plants and only has a few small fish in.

There is plenty of CO2 in the average aquarium and it is produced by the fish and filter bacteria all day, every day. The plants also release CO2 at night when it is dark. And more CO2 gets into the tank from the atmosphere.

Don't use liquid CO2 supplements because they are normally made from toxic substances like Glutaraldehyde that harm fish, shrimp and snails.


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PLANT SUBSTRATE
Some pet shops sell aquatic plant substrates that are meant to improve plant growth. Most don't do anything except add a lot of ammonia to the water and eventually turn into a brown mud on the bottom. Since the majority of aquatic plants take in the nutrients they need via their leaves, having a plant substrate is not going to help much. There are exceptions to this and laterite (red clay) can sometimes be added to the gravel to increase the iron level for the plants taking in nutrients via their roots. But for most plant tanks, all you need is gravel on the bottom of the tank.

Most aquatic plants need at least 2 inches of substrate to grow in and some need 3-4 inches.
 
Keep in mind that fish emit C02 through their gills

So, you already have Co2 being injected into your water. This is just like in a natural environment.
With any aquarium you must have a balance, (fish and plants) just as in nature.
 
thank you for the reply. honestly,i really just dont wanna buy all these test kits...lol. is there any one test kit that will test for everything ? ive glanced over a few but can never find one that measures everything ? i mean, do yall ever feel like it aint a hobby if you gotta become a water expert ? lol
 
i havent had any other media other than the foam rubber types previously mentioned for close to a year now. i am currently experimenting with some iron bc when my amazon swords make new leaves they have holes in them. and thank you for your reply
 
thank you for the reply. honestly,i really just dont wanna buy all these test kits...lol. is there any one test kit that will test for everything ? ive glanced over a few but can never find one that measures everything ? i mean, do yall ever feel like it aint a hobby if you gotta become a water expert ? lol

What you are saying is similar to saying " I want to buy a gas powered car but I really don't want to have to get gas. " :whistle::lol: When you are dealing with live animals, you have to create an environment that fits THEIR needs. When you have a dog or cat, you can tell by their behavior that something is wrong. Unfortunately, with fish, by the time they are showing something is wrong it could be too late to save them or more expensive to save them when seeing the problem developing through tests would have alerted you sooner and you could correct the issue before it goes totally South.
I don't know of any multi-test kits that tests for everything. The API master kit is good for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and Ph but for Gh, Kh, dissolved oxygen, CO2 tests, I found when doing searches that different companies shine for this test but not that test or the other test so you might want to do a search yourself to see which test kits are the best for what you are looking for. (y)
 
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