Effective Cleaning Techniques

[AquaBear]

Hello forum:

Here I come looking for help again. I'm treating for ich right now, and my ammonia is out of control (my tank is/was starting to cycle). I have done a 30% water change daily for the last 3 days. Last night, I saw it dip to .50ppm right afterward, but today it's right back up to 1.0. In addition to the water change, I'm vacuuming the gravel, but I don't remember these vacuums being so wimpy (it's one those little self-starting jobbies). I doesn't whirl the gravel at all, and barely produces enough suction to convince even the tiniest flakes to mosey up the tube.

I've removed almost all plants and decorations while I treat the ich, and the gravel is all well within reach with no obstruction, so there's no reason I shouldn't be able to get some of this blankety-blank ammonia removed. (Maybe this is why when I had tanks as a child, my fish always died).

What's the most effective way to really clean that crap out of the gravel, without stressing the fish? I'm half tempted to stick the ShopVac in there. (that's a joke, I wouldn't really do that) TIA

--AquaBear

[Bearfan]

Get a bigger vacuum. I can tell you that mine does swirl the gravel around quite well. It's about 1 1/2 at the base and probably about 1/2" tubing.

[QTOFFER]

I've had great experience with the Python gravel vac. It's faucet-driven pump is far more powerful than a siphon. If fact, I'm terrified of using it in my betta tank for fear I suck them into it! 8O

I had a wimpy siphon pump like yours and had the same problem. I tossed it in frustration and bought another, one that had tubing with a larger inside diameter (5/8 inch, I believe). The water flowrate and the suction are more powerful it does a much better job at cleaning the gravel.

[Bearfan]

A python on a 16 gal would empty it pretty much filling up the python hose !

[TankGirl]

Another thought is to cut way back on feeding, so you don't have flakes sitting on the gravel in the first place. The fish can go a week without eating, no problem, so maybe skip a couple of days to reduce your waste production and get a handle on the ammonia issue.

I sometimes use my python on my 12gal, but, as stated, it is strong and empties the tank rather quickly (you can cut off the faucet and the syphon will continue, just slower, as long as the tank water level is higher than the sink) so I usually use a manual syphon for my smaller tanks.

[AquaBear]

Hmmm....I will have to see what this Python thing is, since you all spoke of it so highly. It does sound too powerful for my 5 or 16 FWs, but might be a good choice for the 75 SW I'm setting up....although if it connects to the sink, the tank is 15 feet from the closest one. Still, all good advice...I'll give it a try.

The article on treating FW ich on here does recommend using an ammonia neutralizer while treating with medicine. I'm using Kent Ammonia Detox, but it doesn't seem to be doing a THING. I just did my 4th daily 30% water change, treated with the solution, and my ammonia is steady-on at 1.0 ppm. The water is super-clear, I haven't yet figured out what I'm doing wrong. Oh well, first thing I need to do is get rid of this ich, and then I'll try to get my cycle going again.

Thanks everybody.

--AquaBear

[Menagerie]

I strongly suggest using the heat and salt method for treating ich.
Another reason your vac may not be working may be due to a small difference in height between the tank and where your water is going. I always put my "fish only" bucket on the ground next to the stand. Then, I begin siphoning and gravel vacuuming. Putting the bucket next to the tank will not produce enough suction.

[AtodaJ]

Originally Posted by AquaBear

I'm using Kent Ammonia Detox, but it doesn't seem to be doing a THING. I just did my 4th daily 30% water change, treated with the solution, and my ammonia is steady-on at 1.0 ppm. The water is super-clear, I haven't yet figured out what I'm doing wrong.

Just a thought here. When you use an ammonia detoxifer it doesn't remove the ammonia. It only makes it less harmful. As such you shouldn't expect to see your ammonia test readings to change after using that product. In fact, many ammonia detoxifers can cause ammonia tests to give false readings. Good luck!

[AquaBear]

Wow, I don't think I would have ever thought about that (I didn't take chemistry in high school, so most of this stuff is over my head). So then I might not have as much ammonia as I think? Or at the very least, if it's less harmful, then my fish might be okay. So then is it a good idea to continue the regular water changes until I can get my tank to cycle, or should I let it sit a couple of days to see if false readings clear up (of course then if the ammonia gets too bad quickly, I suppose I could lose a few). See, this is something that isn't obvious from the reading I've been doing.

And Menagerie....I ditched the Ich Guard last week, put carbon back in my filter and turned up the heat. So now I'm treating both my FW tanks that way. The fish don't seem to mind, and those %(*#*& white spots have disappeared faster than with the chemicals. But I still need to keep it 86 for 14 days, to make sure I got all the potential offspring, correct? I'm so glad everyone here turned me on to that. It's so much simpler than having to add medication, and it doesn't turn my suction cups (and tubing and decorations) blue.

So now things are a bit more under control, except Homer (my Betta), his tail looks like he might have some fin rot...a small section of his tail looks almost transparent. I don't know if that's the problem or maybe he rubbed up against something in the tank and tore it. I need to try and find out what's going on there.

And the stand for my SW finally arrived, so I've also been busy setting THAT up. I just put my live rock in yesterday and it's starting to shape up nicely. I need to figure out how to put pictures of my tanks out here once I get them going so people can see the results of some of their terrific advice!

--AquaBear

[Menagerie]

But I still need to keep it 86 for 14 days, to make sure I got all the potential offspring, correct?

Yes!
If you can QT Homer, treat for finrot using bettafix (I think that's what it is). Bettas often cannot be treated with the same meds used for other tropical fish.

[An t-iasg]

What do you think caused the finrot? Did he tear it on something? Plastic plants can often cause a fin tear. My betta often plays in the bubbles coming from the sponge filter, and tears his tail. After a day or so, the torn area has a clear edge on it. Is this what you could be seeing with the transparent spot? If so, it's beginning to heal on its own. I wouldn't treat it with meds, but just keep an eye on him. If the fins become stringy looking, or have a black edge, then I would use some meds to treat. In that case, I would QT Homer, as Menagerie said, for treatment. My bettas are in 5.5 gallon tanks, and I have a one-gallon QT bowl for them.

If you need to treat, I would try BettaMax. It's a capsule (open the capsule and put the powder in the water). One capsule = one gallon, so you don't have to worry about dividing powder or breaking a tablet. (The yellow powder can stain things. The green water shouldn't stain if you wipe it up quickly. But it will stain the silicone in an aquarium, so it's best used in a QT tank or bowl.)

BettaFix and MelaFix have an ingredient that may harm the labyrinth organ in bettas. It's perfectly fine for other fish, but bettas may be harmed. I used MelaFix once, diluted, but my betta became very lethargic and I did a big water change. IF you do use it, just watch the betta very closely.

I have used some other meds successfully on bettas, but for mild finrot, BettaMax is the one to use first.

[Menagerie]

BettaFix and MelaFix have an ingredient that may harm the labyrinth organ in bettas.

Which ingredient?

[AquaBear]

Cool. I'm treating both FW tanks this way. Homer has his own tank, so there's no need to quarantine, but I'm concerned that if that's NOT what it is, and I medicate it anyway, is that going to do more harm than good?

--AquaBear

[AquaBear]

Sorry...I didn't realize this message had spilled over to a second page, so when I said I was treating both tanks that way, I meant the heat for the ich. I have heard of BettaFix, but so far I get the consensus that medicating a tank should be viewed as a last resort.

There is one (fake) plant in the tank, and it's all silk except for the tendrils on the bottom that the silk attaches to. And I *have* seen him swimming in between and once even underneath one of these plastic tendrils, so maybe that's all it is. I've been trying to pay him special attention because I can watch him closer than I can watch all the ones in the community tank. Hopefully it ISN'T fin rot, but I know that they are supposed to be more susceptible than most fish.

Thanks for all the advice.

--AquaBear

[Fishboy-from-NY]

to make life much easier i would just keep on putting bacteria additives in the tank to break down the ammonia and nitrite and your problem will be solved that way. after ammoinia and nitrite are at 0, then you do a water change. Also, you don't want to mess around with the gravel since bacteria is trying to colonize in it during cycling. Also, you sould not cycle a tank with fish anyway that's such an odd habit.

[An t-iasg]

Originally Posted by Menagerie

Which ingredient?

Melaleuca, (sp?) the tea tree oil. If it forms a "scum" on top of the water, it may get into the labyrinth organ as the betta comes to the surface to breathe. The few times I used it, I noticed the film on the water, and it seemed to affect my betta adversely. I've been saying this a lot lately, it seems -- there are better meds to use for bettas than MelaFix/BettaFix. This is my experience (that melaleuca is bad for bettas and labyrinth fish) and I've read it in a few places. I know also that some do use it on bettas and say it's ok. Just be watchful and be ready to do a water change if it appears that it's affecting the betta adversely.

[An t-iasg]

Aquabear -- it wasn't really clear (to me, anyway ) if the betta was getting the heat treatment for ich. If he is, I wouldn't use a med too, in water that is already warmer than usual. Medicines, and heat, can decrease the oxygen available in the water. Bettas can breathe at the surface, so it may not be too critical for them, but I wouldn't (IMO) do the heat treatment plus a med at the same time. (I have heard of using the heat treatment plus a half-strength dose of Aquarisol [copper] for ich but it seems like the heat alone is working for you.)

My betta has a few tears in his tail, since he won't stay away from the bubbles coming out of the sponge filter! It isn't finrot, though -- it heals well, and has no fuzzy/black edges. I haven't treated him with anything yet, and he's fine. The end of his tail has what I call a healing edge on it. The tattered ends seem to be held together by a clear (not white) piece of "skin" . When I see this, it appears like he's healing well on his own, and I don't give any meds.