F/W Biotope

[Cequillo]

OTOH, if F/W is the way you decide to go, a biotope (recreating the flora and fauna from a certain part of the word) may be the way to go. It is basically the F/W equivilant of a reef tank and can be just as rewarding. If I can talk my wife into posting, I'm sure she could offer plenty of advice or reading for this type of aquarium. Either way, I'm sure you'll find the experience entertaining and enlightening.

Kevin, I'd be very interested in more information on the biotope systems. I've not heard of these, but they sound interesting. Can they be stocked with fish or they dedicated to just plants?

Thanks!

Bonnie ~ Cequillo

 

[reefrunner69]

That is fine, to identify who quoted what simply type [quote ="username"] text to be quoted[/ quote] (without the spaces.

My wife registered and began to respond abou the biotopes and got a pop up and lost the reply window , she said she'd will try again later, when I am home to assist her. Right now she's getting things ready for the mmemorial day festivities.

 

[Florida Cracker]

Kevin, I'd be very interested in more information on the biotope systems. I've not heard of these, but they sound interesting. Can they be stocked with fish or they dedicated to just plants?

Thanks!

Bonnie ~ Cequillo

Hi, first off a biotope is an attempt to recreate a small section of nature in our home aquariums. There are some excellent books on this subject available from t.f.h. publications, I would recommend reading The Biotope Aquarium, and The Natural Aquarium. Having a copy of The Freshwater Plants Manual is also a good idea. Having said that, the best way to get started is basically to chose a fish or plant that you like and then research it's native habitat ( water properities, Ph, Gh, Kh, temp, type of current etc..), native plants and substrate type. There are literally thousands of habitats to choose from, west african river, rift lake ,amazon,southeast asian....just remember to keep focus and don't try to recreate the whole Amazon, just a tiny slice.I love cichlids so those are the types of habiats I chose to work with...you would be amazed at how much more active, colorful, and generally healthier your fish can be. And spawning is much more likely to occur in a more natural setting for your fish. Just remember that the time you spend researching and reading will save you wasted time, effort, stress and most likely money! If you have anymore qusetions just ask.

Holley~Reefrunner's OldLady

 

[reefrunner69]

Potions of the original thread "Members Website's" have been moved to the current forum and renamed

 

[Cequillo]

Hi Holley,

Thanks so much for the information on the biotopes and also suggestions for reading references. I'll look the books up over at Amazon. I've also spent some time looking on the internet and there seems to be a good amount of information available there. I started thinking about stocking a tank with Gouramis, as they're one of my favorite F/W fish, and found that there is indeed a biotope tank especially for them. I also looked at Discus, nah, too fussy for me, but they are beautiful. One thing that I'm uncertain about though is that many of the biotope articles suggest sand and/or mud for a substrate. In regards sand, are they talking about the type of sand you might use in a S/W tank? I don't know that I've ever seen a fine sand used in a F/W tank, just the pea sized gravel. Also, is the type of substrate important due to the fact that you'll raise live plants? I'm assuming that you can't use just the regular F/W gravel due to this?

I hope you don't mind all the questions! None of the articles I have read are very clear about substrates.

Thank you!

Bonnie

 

[Florida Cracker]

HI Bonnie, first off, this comment may get me in trouble, but, anyone who puts mud in their aquarium is a nitwitted twit who enjoys stress!!!!!!!!!!!! That said, your choice of substrates depends on several things, if you want african rift lake you could use reef type(aragonite) substrate to help buffer Ph in the 7.5 up to 9 range depending on which lake you are trying to recreate. If you want southeast asian(gouramis) I would go with a river gravel ,1-3mm grain size, its out there though you may have to have it ordered. There is one called river blend also one called coffee bean that make beautiful substrates, with enough assorted grain size to accommodate most plants.Florite(a seachem product basically an iron clay sub) is another option, you can use it exclusively or as I do mixed half and half(it's fairly expensive but great for plant growth). Also I meant to suggest in my last post that you get a copy of Barrons Aquarium Fish, not only does it cover hundreds of F/W fish but also details their natural environment . If I can help more just let me know, I have several "recipes" for habitat specific type tanks, including plant and fish species that might occur together in the wild.

 

[fishfreek]

Suggestion

I see Florida Cracker is begining to make herself at home here.

Anyway, after reading this post I came across an idea. Would you mind producing a recommended reading list for Biotype Freshwater tanks? Or maybe just a suggested reading list for freshwater in general?

You can look at the suggested reading list under the saltwater section for general format ideas.

8O

 

[Cequillo]

Hi Holley,

Once again thank you so much for all the information! You've really been helpful. I think I may have the Barron's book you referred too! I have to go over to the other house and check through my library, but the title sounds very familiar to me. If not, it's gone on the list of books to order.

Substrate: I've found a couple of sources for the Seachem Florite (you're correct, it's kind of pricey, but sounds like an ideal plant product) Holley, my question(s) at this point would be, how much of each in a 55 gallon tank? I did find some natural river rock in both small and large sizes. Now I'm going to assume I'll not use an UGF with this substrate, correct? Also, will the florite cloud the water?

Now as to biotopes: I've definitely made my decision (finally the tough part is over) and I'm going to go with the SE Asia tank (it's also referred to as Blackwater). Let me know what you think of this as to fish and plants. Some varieties of Gouramis, 3 or 4 clown loachs, some Rasbora, Glass Catfish. Plants: Cryptocoryne, Nymphaea, Eleocharis, Barclaya longifolia, willow moss. Now these are fish and plants I've put together from the VERY scant information on this type of tank which I've found on the internet. Are there other fish and plants you would suggest, or are there any of those which I've listed which you'd not add? Oh and Holley, the one source I found for this type of tank states that there should be no water surface movement or current. I was planning to use a Biowheel filter, which hangs on the back of the tank, but I know when the water cycles back into the tank, it creates water movement and some current. Do you agree with the no current statement?

Thanks so much for your help Holley. It's really appreciated, I've not ever done this type of tank before, so I hope I'm not overwhelming you with all the questions. Let me know if I am!

Bonnie

 

[Florida Cracker]

Re: Suggestion

Anyway, after reading this post I came across an idea. Would you mind producing a recommended reading list for Biotype Freshwater tanks? Or maybe just a suggested reading list for freshwater in general?

Sure, I'll give it a shot just give me a few days to hunt up the better ones.

 

[Bob Ashcraft]

Substrate: I've found a couple of sources for the Seachem Florite (you're correct, it's kind of pricey, but sounds like an ideal plant product)

A good, cost effective alternative to Flourite, is Profile Aquatic Plant Soil. It's manufactured by Shultz, and is labeled for pond use. It can be purchased most any place that sells pond supplies. The last time I bought some, I believe it was around $7.00/10lb.

I have a 75 gal that has been up for over 4 years with a profile substrate and it has done exceptionally well.

Holley, my question(s) at this point would be, how much of each in a 55 gallon tank? I did find some natural river rock in both small and large sizes.

I used 30 lbs of Profile in my 75 and covered it with 40 lbs of 2-3mm gravel.

One thing you need to remember, whether using Profile or Flourite, is that both substrates are basically sterile, except for iron. A substrate fertilizer must be used to supply the root feeding plants with nutrients.

Now I'm going to assume I'll not use an UGF with this substrate, correct? Also, will the florite cloud the water?

Do NOT use a UGF.

Oh and Holley, the one source I found for this type of tank states that there should be no water surface movement or current. I was planning to use a Biowheel filter, which hangs on the back of the tank, but I know when the water cycles back into the tank, it creates water movement and some current. Do you agree with the no current statement?
Bonnie

This is only a concern if you use a CO2 injection system, which is a whole 'nother topic.

BTW, when the plants establish themselves, they will act as the biological filter, and your bio-wheel will only compete with the plants for the nutients they require.

 

[reefrunner69]

Thanks Bob,
That's interesting to know about the soil. Holley tried to respond to this question about 4 times last night, but there was some storm activity and she kept getting knocked off lines. Dial up sucks.... :?

I found Florite at Big Al's Online for $9.39 for 7 kg (which is 15.4 lbs) that is about $1.64 per lbs, remember though you'll get eat up by shipping. The soil will cost $1.43 per lbs.

Now I might get popped in the back of the head when she get's home, or get called a nitwitted twit (won't be the first time), but I seem to remember some people using clay kitty litter for a plant substrate mixed with appropriate sized gravel. Perhaps Bob or Holley can tell us whether this is a good idea or not.

 

[Bob Ashcraft]

Dial up sucks.... :?

Yeah, fortunately, I have cable at home and a T1 line here at work.

I found Florite at Big Al's Online for $9.39 for 7 kg (which is 15.4 lbs) that is about $1.64 per lbs, remember though you'll get eat up by shipping. The soil will cost $1.43 per lbs.

I don't know what the shipping would be, I'm sure a lot. I can buy Flourite locally for $14.00/15.4 lbs. The nice thing about flourite is that it can be used alone, without putting gravel on top of it.

Now I might get popped in the back of the head when she get's home, or get called a nitwitted twit (won't be the first time), but I seem to remember some people using clay kitty litter for a plant substrate mixed with appropriate sized gravel. Perhaps Bob or Holley can tell us whether this is a good idea or not.

I've used kitty litter before. The problem was that it turned to mush and clouded the water everytime it was disturbed. Other than that, it grew plants very well.

 

[Cequillo]

[quote="Bob Ashcraft[/quote]

A good, cost effective alternative to Flourite, is Profile Aquatic Plant Soil. It's manufactured by Shultz, and is labeled for pond use. It can be purchased most any place that sells pond supplies. The last time I bought some, I believe it was around $7.00/10lb.

Bob thanks so much for the suggestion here. I'll take a look into this as well. That's a few dollars cheaper than the Florite. Do either of these substrates cause the water to cloud?

I used 30 lbs of Profile in my 75 and covered it with 40 lbs of 2-3mm gravel.

So in dealing with several gallons less, 55, I'd reduce these amounts accordingly?

One thing you need to remember, whether using Profile or Flourite, is that both substrates are basically sterile, except for iron. A substrate fertilizer must be used to supply the root feeding plants with nutrients.

Are you referring to one of the many products available to add directly to the water? I've seen some in tab form, some in liquid.

This is only a concern if you use a CO2 injection system, which is a whole 'nother topic.

Bob, I've joined the aquatics plant list and there's been some chatter just recently about the CO2 injection. I think I'd rather not make this experience that complex

BTW, when the plants establish themselves, they will act as the biological filter, and your bio-wheel will only compete with the plants for the nutients they require

Okay, good advice here. But a question that relates, this tank will also support fish. Won't I need additional filtering for them? Or can the plants serve as a total bio filter for the fish as well?

Thanks so much for the info Bob, it's really appreciated!

Bonnie

 

[Cequillo]

Thanks Bob,
That's interesting to know about the soil. Holley tried to respond to this question about 4 times last night, but there was some storm activity and she kept getting knocked off lines. Dial up sucks.... :?

Oh Kevin, Holley has my sympathies, I have dial-up too and know well the frustration and wasted time which can happen with them. I'd love to have cable

I found Florite at Bid Al's Online[/url] for $9.39 for 7 kg (which is 15.4 lbs) that is about $1.64 per lbs, remember though you'll get eat up by shipping. The soil will cost $1.43 per lbs.

Thanks Kevin!! I'm going to get over there and take a look. Yeah, shipping is going to kill me on alot of things for this tank, but no way to get around it.

Now I might get popped in the back of the head when she get's home, or get called a nitwitted twit (won't be the first time),

but I seem to remember some people using clay kitty litter for a plant substrate mixed with appropriate sized gravel. Perhaps Bob or Holley can tell us whether this is a good idea or not.

Kevin, this has been talked about as well on the Aquatics Plant list and seems to work quite successfully for some of their members.

Bonnie

 

[Bob Ashcraft]

Do either of these substrates cause the water to cloud?

Profile does not excessively... I've never used Flourite, but any substrate you use, even after washing, will cloud the water to a certain extent.

If you place the substrate in the tank before adding any water, then add water very slowly, you'll end up with a crystal clear tank from the very beginning.

So in dealing with several gallons less, 55, I'd reduce these amounts accordingly?

Yes, unless you want a deeper substrate. These amounts produced a 2 1/2" - 3" bed in the 75.

Are you referring to one of the many products available to add directly to the water? I've seen some in tab form, some in liquid.

No, i'm talking about fertilizer that is placed into the substrate directly at the plants roots.

Water column fertilizers are mainly for floating plants.

Okay, good advice here. But a question that relates, this tank will also support fish. Won't I need additional filtering for them? Or can the plants serve as a total bio filter for the fish as well?

That depends how many fish you have, how heavily planted the tank is and how well the plants are growing. It's very possible to have a heavily planted tank with a light to moderate fish load using no filter at all... but I wouldn't suggest trying this until you're sure that the plants are well established and growing quickly. Until then, keep a filter on it.

 

[Guest]

now thats what I'm talkin about!

Thanks everybody who put this thread together. I'm not necesarily interested in creating a biotope, but I am researching how to put ttogether a primarily plants tank. Lotta good suggestions here.