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Old 09-15-2010, 08:07 PM   #1
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Freshwater Trace Elements

My nitrates come out of the tap a bit high, 15 - 20 ppm...... so i have been told to use distilled water.

problem is no trace elements are being replenished.

can anyone tell me which would be better for my betta since i am using distilled water.... seachem fresh trace: Seachem. Fresh Trace
or Aqueon's Betta Water Renewal: Aqueon Betta Water Renewal -- 4 fl oz - Vitacost

I love Seachem products, but the Aqueon may be better suited as the Seachem is for general freshwater fish, and Aqueon's is supposedly specificially for bettas.....both contain overlapping ingredients, approximately 9, but each contains other elements / minerals the other does not... any advice?

thanks
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:23 PM   #2
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you can just cut it with some of your tap water. i would just add some plants and use the tap though.
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:29 PM   #3
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re: above

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you can just cut it with some of your tap water. i would just add some plants and use the tap though.
Actually that is what i have been doing, but to keep nitrates below 15 - 20 seems i need to use at least 1.5 gallons of distilled on a 20% pwc.

Also have various plants, 2 crypts, 2 java ferns, 1 anubia, and 1 God knows whatever.......aquatic plant.
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Old 09-17-2010, 04:02 AM   #4
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If you do larger PWCs, you will add more tap water and thus more nutrients to the system.

I advocate 50% PWCs because of the easy math

Basically, if you add 15-20 nitrates to the tank with each PWC (you don't add that much because you aren't completely refilling the tank, and you also take some out when you take water for a PWC), and the plants take enough out to compensate for the betta, your nitrates will never get higher than 30-40.
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Old 09-17-2010, 04:18 AM   #5
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those are slow growing. you want a fast growing plant like pennywort water sprite depending on the light there are tons of stem plants.
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Old 09-19-2010, 03:29 AM   #6
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Nitrates

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Originally Posted by taylorodw View Post
If you do larger PWCs, you will add more tap water and thus more nutrients to the system.

I advocate 50% PWCs because of the easy math

Basically, if you add 15-20 nitrates to the tank with each PWC (you don't add that much because you aren't completely refilling the tank, and you also take some out when you take water for a PWC), and the plants take enough out to compensate for the betta, your nitrates will never get higher than 30-40.
well, i have been told to keep nitrates at 10 - 15 max...... therefore my concern, API freshwater test kit says like 60 is getting too high, so I am a bit unclear as to why 10-15 is already bad.
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Old 09-19-2010, 03:32 AM   #7
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plants

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those are slow growing. you want a fast growing plant like pennywort water sprite depending on the light there are tons of stem plants.
where can i get them? no one seems to guarantee snail free.......

The ones that are guaranteed snail free are usually not even aquatic plants, (i can't beleive they can get away with that).

would they be too large and spread too much for a 10 G tank?

I went with low light plants, are these low light also?
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:44 AM   #8
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No plants are guaranteed snail free that I have ever seen.

Nitrates really don't get out of hand until 80-100 ppm (this varies by opinion though). Most of us try to keep them under 40.

If you can't avoid high nitrates, then your fish will be fine, although they may not thrive as well as in a super clean system.

What is your nitrate reading in the tank? If you use straight tap, and your reading is higher than 15-20 you're only going to reduce it. If the reading is less than 15-20, then your nitrates will go up slightly.

Water sprite does okay in low light, I would recommend T5s if you want it to really use up a sizable amount of nitrate though. What is your lighting?

Both plants are stem plants, so they are easy to trim and remove over growth. If you trim some off periodically it won't outgrow the tank. Just a simple snip of scissors on the stem will trim it, then you plant the part with roots.

Ultimately, doing larger PWCs with a mixture of tap/distilled water will allow for larger replenishment of trace nutrients per PWC, and most likely reduce total nitrates (unless your plants uptake more nitrate than your fish produce, which seems unlikely with those plants but would depend on stock).
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:46 AM   #9
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Tropica plants are all snail free, because they are all grown emersed. Hornwort is probably the fastest growing plant I have kept.
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:57 PM   #10
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reply and another question, re: r/o water

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Originally Posted by taylorodw View Post
No plants are guaranteed snail free that I have ever seen.

Nitrates really don't get out of hand until 80-100 ppm (this varies by opinion though). Most of us try to keep them under 40.

If you can't avoid high nitrates, then your fish will be fine, although they may not thrive as well as in a super clean system.

What is your nitrate reading in the tank? If you use straight tap, and your reading is higher than 15-20 you're only going to reduce it. If the reading is less than 15-20, then your nitrates will go up slightly.

Water sprite does okay in low light, I would recommend T5s if you want it to really use up a sizable amount of nitrate though. What is your lighting?

Both plants are stem plants, so they are easy to trim and remove over growth. If you trim some off periodically it won't outgrow the tank. Just a simple snip of scissors on the stem will trim it, then you plant the part with roots.

Ultimately, doing larger PWCs with a mixture of tap/distilled water will allow for larger replenishment of trace nutrients per PWC, and most likely reduce total nitrates (unless your plants uptake more nitrate than your fish produce, which seems unlikely with those plants but would depend on stock).
Nitrates IHMO are fine, generally controlled to 20 or so, but I am told by some this is too high.... therefore, the doubt.

Lighting is low, 10 watt "SunGlo" tank lights.... 2 of them in an All Glass Hood / 10G tank.

What are T5's ?? Will check out water sprite as well... I only have 1 betta in the (10G) tank.

I ended up letting the LFS talk me into R/O water, however they told me I do not need to use a water treatment, no chlorine in it, but that I do NOT need to add trace elements / minerals.... which does not make sense. How can you filter out nitrates, chlorine, etc and leave the trace elements and minerals intact.......he said it was the type of membrane they use and that this is filtered water...but not safe for "drinking" being the difference between aquarium water and R/O filtered waterused for drinking.

i added prime anyway after a 50 % pwc and I started thinking about it. I also looked up on line about R/O and am a bit confused. What little information I was able to find, re R/O for aquarium use, all advocated replenishing the minerals / elements / nutrients, i.e. "Kent's R/O Right" for example.

As I understood the LFS guy, they purify it there? They had 5 gallon square, plastic jugs, and I could either bring my own container or purchase theirs and come back for refills at .25 / G (cheaper than distilled anyway after the first round)...

Do I need to get some kind of product, i.e. Kent's R/O Right or something?
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:58 PM   #11
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tropica plants

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Tropica plants are all snail free, because they are all grown emersed. Hornwort is probably the fastest growing plant I have kept.

Is that the vendor / brand name, Tropica?
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Old 09-20-2010, 04:17 PM   #12
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A betta will have absolutely no problems with 20ppm nitrates. If somebody told you differently, they're fools

T5s are a type of lighting. The number is how many eighths of an inch the bulb is. So a T8 is a one inch diameter bulb, a T5 is a 5/8 inch diameter bulb. T5 HO (high output) lights are great for growing aquarium plants.

R/O water needs to be re-mineralized. However if you use pure R/O you won't need prime.

IMO I would just go with tap. With 1 betta your nitrates won't ever get exceptionally high.
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:31 PM   #13
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thanks, i picked up some Kent Marine R/O Right (liquid) yesterday.......

i feel good now, betta seems just fine........ also had added a little bogwood piece to the bottom of the tank and threw some bogwood chips in the filter media between the 2 sponges, (Aqua Clear Filter).... it is supposed to help with nutrients and also softening the water...... tested water last night after adding R/O and PH was down about 5 points, from 8.3 to about 7.8
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelg210 View Post
where can i get them? no one seems to guarantee snail free.......

The ones that are guaranteed snail free are usually not even aquatic plants, (i can't beleive they can get away with that).

would they be too large and spread too much for a 10 G tank?

I went with low light plants, are these low light also?
i can get you pennywort snail free. ill just make sure to pull it before i put it in my system. i have a lot of nerites.
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Tropica plants are all snail free, because they are all grown emersed. Hornwort is probably the fastest growing plant I have kept.
tropica doesnt sell to the usa.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:27 AM   #15
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I prefer tetra betta. It's a Chlorine, cloramine, heavy metals, etc and makes it safe. It contains Indian almond leaf extracts, which are excellent IMO, and everyone I knows opionan for bettas, it also contains a lot of other elements.
I've used nutrafin betta plus but it only comes in tiny bottles and you have to use tons of it just to dose 1g, and is watered down.
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