GBR Rapid Breathing, or is this normal?

[h2oskierc]

Female German blue ram - YouTube

Sorry for the poor video quality, the tank lights were already off, and I didn't want to startle the fish by turning them back on. Is this rate of breathing normal? I am assuming the lips are moving with the fish's respiration (is it called that in fish)?

Here is another video of earlier today when the lights were on, if that helps anything:

German blue rams - YouTube

I just did a 70% PWC (20G Tall wasn't paying attention to how much I siphoned out), and right before that my parameters were:
80 degrees, pH 8.2, Ammo <.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate between 20-40 (color didn't really match either one, call it 30?)

I just got my two GBRs on Saturday, and I did about a four hour drip acclimation.

Thanks for the help,

Chris

 

[Tigroscr]

IMO sounds like it just could be stressed, my TO does this sometimes when I do a pwc or vacuum the tank but idk for sure maybe someone else will know for sure!

 

[Tigroscr]

Is your ram still having the rapid breathing or did he slow down?

 

[h2oskierc]

Yeah, still breathing that way. Colors are all beautiful, and her pink spot is very noticable/obvious. I have seen the male flashing some (no white spots though), maybe twice in the hour that I was really watching them.

August 18, 2011 8:37 PM - YouTube

What I don't get is my parameters are OK. Ammonia less than .25 again (looks about half-way between 0 and .25), 0 Nitrites, 10 Nitrates. With the nitrates being at 10 I decided to do another 50% PWC, just to be safe, plus the Ammonia is higher than I like. Adding these two guys must have set off another mini cycle, I guess.

Here is another video of the female hiding in a decoration:

August 18, 2011 8:59 PM - YouTube

I wonder if she could be getting eggs ready for spawing. She has started hiding a lot, and the male has started getting agressive with the swordtail and neons in the tank.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks, Tigroscr, for the feedback. I hope that you are right and it isn't something serious.

 

[Tigroscr]

It could be the stress of spawning possibly but Idk for sure! Maybe send bruinsbro or Eco a private message they might know they r both very educated and seem to know a lot about fish. Hope everything works out for you and your fish!!

 

[h2oskierc]

Thanks, I did that. Good suggestion.

I guess this should have gone in the unhealthy tank forum, so if a mod wants to move it...

 

[Tigroscr]

Let me know how it turns out for you!

 

[eco23]

Sorry, I'm not gonna be much help. . I've only kept a GBR once and it didn't end well. I had him for about 2 weeks and he acted perfectly normal. He ate well, would swim to the front of the tank to meet you, followed us around the room watching...then out of the blue it just went bad. He also started breathing heavy and within 24 hours he was gone for no reason at all . One difference between mine and your female is that my guy definitely got pale on the last day...so hopefully it's something completely different going on in your case. I hope it all works out. They're beautiful fish.

 

[bruinsbro1997]

I'm not exactly the cichlid expert, so this is by no means necessarily 100% correct, this has just been my experience in the past year.

My female GBR has gone through a lot, and usually when she is rapidly breathing she is getting stressed out by the males in my tank. She is usually hiding behind the plants or filter intake and is stressed out when the males hassle her.
I have also seen her rapidly breathing when she had a fungal infection at month four, which was cured through major PWC and taking out some decorations, I had just added in some rocks from the beach so I suspected it was those. It cleared up in about a month. It doesn't look like your fish has it though.
For now, I'm just gonna say she's super stressed. Try keeping the lights off. It helps with my fish.

 

[h2oskierc]

For now, I'm just gonna say she's super stressed. Try keeping the lights off. It helps with my fish.

Sounds good. I will turn the lights off. I do have some low-light plants (Anubias Hasofolia, Java Fern, Lace Java Fern and Java Moss), should I turn them off for 2-3 days, or would that be too long?

As bad as it sounds, I hope it is just stress. I think that is better than what I was thinking. Can you be a hypochondriac on behalf of your fish? I just love the GBRs, definitely my favorites already...

 

[absolutangel04]

No, breathing that rapid is not normal for a ram. She may just be stressed, like they said. Rams are also acclimate slowly. It is good that you did a slow, careful initial acclimation, but these guys take a while to settle in and adjust. If you do have any ammonia in the tank (you said it looked like it was between 0 and .25), that might be enough to stress her farther. Keep up with the pwc and water param tests and kep an eye on her. Leaving the lights off for longer is giood advice as well in case stress in indeed the culprit. Good luck.

 

[h2oskierc]

Sadly, the female did not make it. First fish I have lost. The worst of it is I have no idea why, other than stress.

Now I have to ask myself if I make a trip to the store and have them "replace" it or just hope the male survives alone.

If anyone can shed some light on the cause of her death, I would take any suggestions. Thanks,

Chris

 

[Tigroscr]

Sadly, the female did not make it. First fish I have lost. The worst of it is I have no idea why, other than stress.

Now I have to ask myself if I make a trip to the store and have them "replace" it or just hope the male survives alone.

If anyone can shed some light on the cause of her death, I would take any suggestions. Thanks,

Chris

Awwwww! I'm so sorry for your loss, I wish I knew what caused it! :-(

 

[jetajockey]

I wish I knew also, but I've lost dozens of rams for no apparent reason either. Usually when I see one breathing like that, or looking pale, they are gone in the next day.

One cause for concern is the ammonia reading in the tank, with a ph that high it could cause a toxicity problem, but I don't know if that is related to what happened to the fish.

 

[h2oskierc]

I wish I knew also, but I've lost dozens of rams for no apparent reason either. Usually when I see one breathing like that, or looking pale, they are gone in the next day.

One cause for concern is the ammonia reading in the tank, with a ph that high it could cause a toxicity problem, but I don't know if that is related to what happened to the fish.

Yeah, I would have thought I would see the fish breathing at the surface or something.

I use an api product that should detoxify the ammo, just like prime. Just sucks not knowing.

Like I said, now I an just trying to determine if I replace it. Maybe I should get bolivians instead? They look kind of similar.

 

[eco23]

Sorry about your fish .

A couple things to keep in mind. pH isn't necessarily a big deal as long as it is stable...but that is for most fish, not all. IMO, GBR's fit into the category of not being one who adapts well. I know you did a good acclimation, but unfortunately GBR's are notorious for dying from unexplained reasons, and also from things which are considered outside of their ideal range. In the limited experience I have with GBR's...they're one of the few fish along with others like Discus that I would have concerns about having them in high pH water.

Another thing to keep in mind is ammonia toxicity. The higher the pH, the more toxic it becomes. Ideally a Ram really shouldn't be exposed to any ammonia whatsoever, and if by chance the .25 reading you were getting was actually higher...it could potentially have had an effect.

Here's a chart jeta put together which can explain it better than me-
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/your-guide-to-ammonia-toxicity-159994.html

If you decide to try again, I'd make 100% sure the tank is stable (no ammonia), and do another long, slow drip acclimation. Even then, GBR's are simply one of those fish which just stump even the most experienced hobbyists sometimes.

Sorry again

*Edit- You guys beat me to it.

 

[Tigroscr]

How is the male ram doing? Is he acting ok?

 

[h2oskierc]

How is the male ram doing? Is he acting ok?

He is acting better than the female.

I wonder if I should treat for ich? Do I have to see white spots? I did see the male flashing some. If I watch with my phone, I don't see it though, only without my phone...

Crap, it sucks to lose a fish. Makes me feel terrible for the poor thing.

 

[h2oskierc]

Here is the female after passing. Could it be bloat? The stomach looks distended and I found her laying on her side in the gravel.

 

[Tigroscr]

I know it sucks to lose a fish! But unfortunately it will happen from time to time! Over the years ive lost a few! I'm glad to hear your male is thriving though, that's great.