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Old 05-19-2012, 08:48 AM   #1
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Goldfish chasing

Hi.
Anyone know why? My black telescope is chasing my ryukin? Just put in tank 24 hours ago. Breeding instinct? Aggression?

Thanks for the advice!
-tielai
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:45 AM   #2
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Hi! Welcome to AA!!! Some more information will help! How big is the tank? How many fish are in it? What type of fish? Did you qt the moor before adding him to this tank? How do your water parameters look (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & ph)? How big is the bully moor & your other fish? Thanks!
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:46 PM   #3
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Goldfish chasing.

Hi jlk,
Thank you for the reply!

Here's the specifics. 20 gallon tank. Cycled water for one week before adding 4 fish. Sizes are big. One ryukin about the size of two golf balls, oranda the size of 1.5 golf balls. Calico 1.5 gb and the moor about 3 inches and thick. All beautiful. Nitrate levels all 0. Ph 0. Hardness is between 30-60. Added fish last night approximately 6pm. Ammonia level not dark green but green. I suspect the tank is overstocked. I have the moor quarantined now.

Many thanks,
Tielai
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:10 PM   #4
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Tank size and ammonia issues are your primary problem right now. Your tank is not properly cycled and way overstocked with messy goldfish. A 20g is only suitable for a single fancy. Four of these guys need minimum of a 50g with 500gph filtration. They are not babies either so stocking issues are an even bigger problem. Fancies are not a good choice for an uncycled tank- they are sensitive to high amounts of ammonia, nitrite & nitrate.

Do you have a good liquid test kit such as the API kit? This will be a must have as well as a good water conditioner such as Prime. Prime will help to limit the toxicity of ammonia & nitrite. Your going to need to be viligent on daily testing and lots of water changes while your tank cycles to limit the toxin levels & keep your guys healthy. I suspect the moor's tank is not cycled either- the same goes for his tank. Daily testing & lots of water changes. You also need to upgrade their tank as soon as possible to prevent stunting and house them appropriately. Please read the link below & ask any questions you may have!

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:16 PM   #5
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Also...
I have aqua clear filter 50 gallon I changed the medium to sponge-carbon-sponge. Previous tank setup was the sponge- carbon- ceramic pellets. But I had a problem with a fine powder covering the previous stock of smaller goldfish. Which no one could figure out where it was coming from. It would happen after water change.
Thanks !
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:56 PM   #6
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I have API ammonia test kit. Strips for everything else. Will go get better test kit. Doing water change approx. 35%. The fish guy at Petland discount seems to think these four would be ok in the 20 gallon tank. But I trust your expertise more.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:59 PM   #7
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Also just observed as I was doing a water change vacuuming substrate what appears to be dozens of small like eggs.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:33 PM   #8
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The advice from chain stores is not always correct due to lack of training and misinformation. Always do your own research first! I can tell you a single full grown moor that has been raised under ideal conditions will not fit in a 20g. Four fancies in a 20g is bad news- they will be stunted and suffer from a host of health problems if kept this way long term. Ok, the eggs! If you dont have anything else such as snails, you have atleast one female in your tank! Dont be surprised if you see more in the future. Your fish will likely consume them unless you have another 20g you can move them to promptly.
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Old 05-19-2012, 05:07 PM   #9
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Well we returned the moor and the ryukin so now we have two.
A responsible solution I hope. Would adding another filter to the tank
Be a viable solution?

Thank you so much for your help!
Tielai
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:01 PM   #10
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Adding another filter will help but just keep in mind that you will eventually have to upgrade their home. As your tank is cycling, your going to need to stay on top of your water changes (likely daily or even twice daily). Once it is cycled, your still going to have to be viligant on water changes to keep nitrate levels under control- this will likely be 2x a week of atleast 50+%.

If you are not familiar with feeding these guys, make sure you get them a quality sinking goldfish pellet (Hikari, Pro-Gold or NLS) and offer them daily plain cooked veggies & occasional fruits in addition to some fresh foods (bloodworms, other worms, brine shrimp, human-grade fish). You can also consider switching them to a homemade gel food diet. Check out the GAB (goldfish & aquarium board) for recipe ideas. A good diet will go a long way to keeping them healthy! Dont hesitate to ask questions!
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:57 AM   #11
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Good morning!
Again, thank you for all the great advice! As I mentioned, I brought two of fish back, I am doing water changes 2x daily 35% and the ammonia reads at 2.0. once they eat, and later in the day it jumps and I do the next change. I added 30ml of bbacteria on saturday adn 20ml on sunday, 20g tank. my filter is an aqua clear for 50 gal. tank. i substituted the ceramic pellet medium on top with an ammonia pad as well. i'm leaning to get another filter, outfit it with ammonia medium. i'd like to keep the tank i have,but i don't understand the quality of life for the two fish would be better in a larger tank.

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Old 05-21-2012, 11:08 AM   #12
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Hi! Have you tested your tap water for the presence of ammonia, nitrite & nitrate? If theres none or its minimal, you need to step up your water changes because 2ppm of ammonia is quite high. Even a water conditioner such as Prime only works up to @2ppm of ammonia. I would increase them to 50+% to get your ammonia under control. It may take multiple water changes to accomplish this. I am not quite sure what you are not understanding/asking in respect to a larger tank- are you asking why one would be needed or was this a typo? Just in case I didnt already post this, heres the fish-in cycle link:

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:27 AM   #13
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my apologies, my typo. of course i do understand a larger tank would be better. sheesh! my wife did an ammonia reading this morning and it was 0.5-1, i'm buying 5 gallon buckets to make the water changes easier.

that's a great idea! testing the tap water for amm, nitrite, nitrate. never thought to do that...

must say i'm getting a better education talking to you then i've gotten in the past from other sites and the neighborhood petland!

many thanks,
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:34 AM   #14
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Nothing wrong with buckets but you may want to consider investing in a water changer (python, aqueon, etc) especially if your looking into a bigger tank. It will make your life ALOT easier & water changes can be accomplished in less than 10-15mins. Certainly will help while your doing multiple changes during cycling. Just something to think about!
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:48 AM   #15
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i will definitely look into it.

thanks!
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:51 AM   #16
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check that, i do have the aqueon water changer, siphon reaches my bathtub, but adding water is where buckets would be needed, unless i got the faucet connector/valve.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:57 AM   #17
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The faucet connector thing (i forget what its exactly called) is sold at most chain home improvement stores (its 2 seperate pieces) in the plumbing section. Its about $15 for the connector & attachment. You need to remove the screen piece off your faucet to attach it.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:29 AM   #18
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good morning, jlk!

i am continuing two water changes daily, the ammonia isnt under control yet, i hope soon. i added 30ml of bbactieria last night as well. i did notice that my oranda is spending a lot of time at the surface, just hanging there, breathing. he eats a bit. is this a sign of something going on ?

also what are your thoughts on adding salt to the tank?

Many thanks!
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:58 AM   #19
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Hi! How are your numbers looking today? How is the ph in your tank? Did you check your tap water for ammonia, nitrite & nitrate? What are you using right now as a water conditioner? Do you have an extra source of aeration in the tank besides the filter? If not, I would definitely add one or two (bubble wand, airstone, etc).

Adding some cycled media will be the quickest to speed things up. Do you know anyone with a healthy, cycled tank (friend, lfs, etc)? If your in the US, you can purchase an 'active' filter from Angelsplus (Sponge Filters for aquariums)- they have helped many members here cycle their tanks.

Ok, salt- yes, this can help with nitrite toxicity (not ammonia) but you will need to be very careful in monitoring the exact amounts you are adding and removing with your water changes. Salt is not intended to be used longterm with goldies because it can create other health issues. Short-term it will be helpful. Use aquarium, kosher or canning salt (needs to be pure salt/NaCl with NO other ingredients). It needs to be predissolved in a container of tank water & added gradually over a 48hr period of time. I would aim for .1% salinity which equates to approximately 1 level measuring teaspoon per gallon/ 4.76grams per gallon. I would suggest using a small kitchen scale & measuring by weight rather than volume due to various different sizes of grains (ie, aq salt is large grains, canning salt is fine grains). Salt does not dissipate and only can be removed via water changes- when you do a water change, add back only the salt you remove (50%wc, add back 1/2 original dose). Make sure you always predissolve the salt in some tank water prior to adding it. Salinity needs to be increased gradually and decreased gradually so fish can have a chance to adjust to the salinity levels. Hope this helps!
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:16 PM   #20
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hi!

ph, nitrate, nitrite all at the lowest level on the test strip. i know, i need to get a more reliable test kit. I will test these in the tap this evening as well as purchase, some form of aeration. I use API Stress coat, putting measured amounts into the gallon jugs and buckets i use to prepare H20.

dumb question; the 'active filters' are they 'dry' when purchased? I assume they must be wet so bacteria can live? i don't know anyone with a cycled tank, unfortunately...

many thanks!
tielai
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