goldfish mating or bullying?

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cheeky_monkey

Aquarium Advice Freak
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Nov 14, 2011
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One of my goldfish (regular fancy) is following my oranda and nudging its belly and pushing it into the glass. There's no biting/nipping just bumping.

I thought this was mating behaviour but they're just babies! About 2.5-3 inches not including tails.
 
Now the other fancy is doing the same thing so she has two fish nudging at her and cornering her into the glass :( do I separate her?
 
Thanks jlk, is it typical bullying or mating? As I said they're only very young.
 
It could be bullying, i had 3 fancy tail goldfish in a 75 gallon community tank and two of them would actually pin the third to the bottom and in corners. I would reccomend rehomeing the two bullies, it was easy to rehome for me because i have a pond with koi, shabunbkins, comets, and goldfish. It may be difficult to rehome the 2, but the bullied goldfish wont last long under that stress.
 
If they are very young, its more likely bullying than breeding. The exception would be if they were badly stunted and you were unaware of this when you purchased them. I know the petsmart near me has fancies there that have been there for a couple of years & they are not any larger than a lime (poor things!!!). You can consider a tank divider or another tank (or rehoming) as an option if the issue becomes severe.
 
Oh no I never considered they might be stunted from the pet store. I figured it was the best place to buy because they have such a high turn over of fish so they wouldn't have been in the tiny tanks long. They have grown since I got them, is that an indication that perhaps they were just babies? They were only about 1.5inches when I got them just a few weeks ago and they're already about 2.5-3 now (oranda being the smallest when I know she should be the largest when fully grown)

I will keep a close eye on them today, if they stress her too much I will separate her for a while. I don't have anything suitable to put her in though :( nothing bigger than a 10g (hosp tank) is free at the moment.

While I type this the cream coloured fancy is swimming with it's head in the orandas fantail. Not nudging her yet just being annoying I guess.

While I have your attention in my thread jlk, could you please suggest some more favourite veggies for them and how I should prepare them? Raw or blanched? So far they've been getting lots of blanched broccoli (so it sinks) but various googled links give me confusing results for others.
 
Thats good your lfs has a high turn over rate so they likely werent there long. An inch of growth a month is great! Is there one fish doing more of the pushing around than the others? If so, hit the dollar store & purchase a large plastic mesh basket (1ft deep, 1 ft around)- they kinda look like little laundry baskets. Place it in the top of the tank so its submersed in the water & put the trouble maker in the basket for an hour to couple of hours. A large plastic pasta strainer would work too if the fish isnt very big. Just make sure he cant jump out. This may be enough to work as an attitude adjustment. I used to do this with my dominant male (who abused the other males). But he also got 'time outs' in my qt as well (from hours to days) when the basket trick wasnt enough. He has calmed down quite a bit ! No guarentee this will work for you especially because it does sound like breeding behavior even though they may be young.

In respect to some veggie ideas, plain cooked stuff is the best. Soft enough to tear or smooshed into bits (use a garlic press). I buy the bags of frozen, microwavable veggies & cook them & stick in a tupperware container. They last about a week. You also can set aside some of any veggie you may cooking for dinner. Broccoli is by far my guys favorite but you can also try cauliflower, zucchini, spinach, kale, turnip greens, peas, peppers, carrots, aspargus heads, etcetc. Skip the heavy starches (corn,potatoes) & spicy stuff & canned (too much salt). Fruits are good too (just dont feed daily-too much sugar)- oranges, tangerines, berries, grapes (no seeds or skins), soft apple/pear/peach, bananas, melon, etcetc. If you use canned stuff, just make sure its packed in juice & not heavy syrup. Hope this helps! :)
 
Well I've been watching them this morning and it seems to be just the one bully. The second fancy sometimes joins in but for the most part it's definitely just the one bully. He's also the biggest in the tank. I have the type of basket you're talking about so I will go grab that and put him in some time-out for a while. Hopefully they're as easy to discipline as my children. :)

Thank-you for all the veggie ideas, I didn't realise there was so much they would eat. I guess I just feed them much the same as my bristlenoses in the tropical community. I usually do as you suggested and just cook an extra piece each night with dinner to throw in the tank. (we don't use any salts etc. just steam raw fresh veggies) I never knew they could eat fruit either so I will give them a treat every so often.

Off I go to punish a naughty fish. Thanks jlk!
 
lol! Dont expect it to work immediately. It may take awhile before he gets the idea he can be in the tank without abusive (it took mths with my male abuser). Expect him to be quite disturbed when he first goes in the basket when he realizes theres no where to go & he cant chase anyone. Just keep him an eye on him so he doesnt injure himself. Good luck! :)
 
I think I've just cleared the way for the other fancy to have a go at her. :( It's only every so often that he shows the same behaviour so she is getting a break. I don't want to rehome them and the oranda is my favourite. The fourth fish in the tank the moor just keeps to himself and no-one bothers him, why can't they all behave that way.

Meanwhile naughty fish #1 is trying his best to escape the basket. Hopefully he learns his lesson soon.
 
when i brought my new goldfish and put them in the tank my largest fish went crazy. There were 2 he went after but eswp the one. he would push her and put his face up in her fins, and shove her against the wall. I was appalled. I bought them fo rhis companions. i was in there with my hand, the fish net,,everything. tried to close off any areas he could puin her and really hurt her.
Then i looked up breeding behavor and boy did I feel stupid. that was what they were doing. In a little while it all settled down and I haven't had any problems since. I did find some slimy stuff in my tank. I was scared foir the fish but had no idea what I could do. They seemed to have worked it out
 
Oh I don't like this at all, I've never had bully fish!

So he was in the sin bin for 2 hours, let him out and within 5 minutes he was at it again. I've been watching the last few hours to make sure she wasn't getting too stressed by it and so far looking ok. I'm hoping their dinner distracts them enough to leave her alone. Otherwise it's back in the sin bin for him!
 
I watched some youtube videos and it definitely looks like breeding behaviour but they're so young.
 
Thought I'd pop back for an update.

As I suspected would happen the oranda has now grown slightly larger than the fancies, and the bullying is all but stopped. For now!

My issue now is that my moor does not seem to be growing, at all. The two fancies and the oranda have all grown considerably since I got them. A good 2 inches each, and no change in the moor. He's never bullied, always left alone. He just swims and eats by himself, never interacts with the others. Is he just a slow growing loner or is there something going on?
 
I am glad to hear the bullying has stopped! It sounds like your 3 fancies are getting sufficient food and growing at a healthy rate as well. That's good news!!

In respect to the moor, spend some time watching him at mealtimes and see exactly how much he eats when compared to the others. My first guess would be because he visually handicapped in comparison to the others & is likely slower, he is simply not getting enough food. You can try feeding him on the opposite side tank from the others & hand feed him some additional fresh protein snacks. If he is not getting sufficient protein, he won't grow.

Genetics also may factor into his situation to some degree as well as the possibility that he is actually much older than you realize and was stunted prior to purchase. My suspicion though is he simply is not getting enough to eat. Try to measure him if possible and then work on making sure he is getting balanced diet with a good amount of protien and see in mth if there's any improvement. :)
 
Well I have spent the last two days watching her feed and it seems you've hit the nail on the head. It LOOKS like she's eating but she's actually missing the food so all she's getting is some vege and whatever she can find on the substrate later on.

I tried to feed her up the opposite end of the tank but she still didn't seem to be able to accurately judge the food distance and eat it. How can I help her?
 
The poor little girl! Your going to have to make a concerted effort to make sure shes eating enough. I think you also see an improment in her behavior/growth once she is as well. My one moor is like this- if I didnt handfeed her, she would never eat. What type of food do you feed them? The best I suggest is what I do with my girl. At mealtime, I gently move her to the opposite side of the tank & feed the piglets while offering her food cupped in hand (she eats it out my hand). I then offer her bits of protein packed food throughout the day (hold it in front her face & she eats it). Earthworms are great source of protien as well as bits of human shrimp, salmon, tuna, etc. You can also try soaking her food in garlic juice/supplement & a vitamin/mineral supplement. Some fish love the smell/taste of garlic (most of mine dont though!). Another option would be to make her some of her own gelfood packed full protien & veggies & offer her cube to eat while the others eating- she may eat this on her own. Its going to take a bit more effort with her but once you figure out a system that works for you, you should see her start to flourish! Hope this helps a bit! :)
 
They get pre-soaked pellets each morning and of an evening they get fresh steamed vege (usually broccoli as its their favourite) and brine shrimp every second day. I see her grazing on the broccoli the last few nights but she's still not seen to be eating anything else.

I've attempted gel food once and it didn't set properly so I'm going to try again.

How do I accustom her to eating from my hand? I'm willing to do anything to help her. :(

I have some fresh fish pieces in the fridge can I cook a portion of that and offer it to her by hand? I used prawns (you call them shrimp) in my gel food but is fish better protein source?
 
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