Good sand substrates

[rossmort]

Hi, I plan on putting together a shell-dwelling cichlid tank in the near future (Granted I can find them) and was wondering what the best sand would be to use as I don't want to get something that becomes cement like in the bottom. I have found a couple that interest me but one says cichlid specific so I don't know how superior, if at all it is, over the regular stuff.

The 2 that I am liking now:
Tropic Isle Tahitian Moon Sand
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7324&Ne=40000&R=7535&N=2004+113553

and
Eco-Complete Cichlid Substrate
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=8976&Ne=40000&R=6045&N=2004+113553

This will be in a 55 gallon most likely (Hopefully not under 40g!), how much sand would be necessary for around 3" of cover? (EDIT!!!--Wow, been reading this forum for quite a while and JUST saw the calculators link)
Also, any other ideas would be great as I have heard of people using sand from places like home depot--Cheaper is always good BUT doing it right is always paramount.

Thanks!

 

[shawmutt]

Home Depot Carribean Play sand is ideal--just make sure you thoughly rinse it before adding. My tank's in my gallery, it has the play sand in it.

 

[rossmort]

Awesome, and I am guessing that the HD stuff is much cheaper. Does your stand stay pretty loose or do you have to sift through it every once and a while? I don't wanna have to stress out the fish all that much as they live right in it.

 

[Cunch]

Depending on your location, many people are having a problem finding the home depot Southdown Play sand. I managed to find a home depot (Chicago) which had the sand in stock for my 110g reef tank. I was curious to see if the sand was good for freshwater tanks, but I guess this forum covered that already!

If you call your local Home Depot etc... here is the information on the sand in question.

Model Number 420100, SKU# 578-819 and UPC Code 0-90604-20100-2

Cunch

 

[Cunch]

Depending on your location, many people are having a problem finding the home depot Southdown Play sand. I managed to find a home depot (Chicago) which had the sand in stock for my 110g reef tank. I was curious to see if the sand was good for freshwater tanks, but I guess this forum covered that already!

If you call your local Home Depot etc... here is the information on the sand in question.

Model Number 420100, SKU# 578-819 and UPC Code 0-90604-20100-2

Cunch

 

[shawmutt]

Does your stand stay pretty loose or do you have to sift through it every once and a while?

Simple answer: Well, I sift through it every few weeks to prevent any aneorobic pockets from developing, but when I do sift through it's very loose. It doesn't really pack down at all, but between my fish digging through it and me combing through it, it doesn't really have a chance to.

Complicated answer: The play sand is argonite (aka calcium carbonate), the same stuff in a lfs, just way cheaper. The particles are formed when coral dies, then gets crushed by wave action into what a lfs sell as crushed coral, and then get crushed further into sand size particles which the lfs sells as argonite or coral reef sand. As a result of all that wave action, the sand is formed with rounded edges, and makes that fluffy kind of sand one finds in the tropics that is less resistant to compacting. Furthermore, argonite will act as a buffer in the tank, helping to keep your pH at the levels a lot of African cichilds experience in their native habitat.

This is compared to quartz sand, also known as silica sand. Quartz sand is by far more common, and is found on most beaches. It is simply crushes quartz rock, and since quartz is a crystal, it's edges are sharper and the sand compacts firmly. However, it proves to be a good sand for tanks where low pH is desirable, as quartz is inert and will not affect an aquarium's water chemistry.

Sorry if that's too much information

 

[rossmort]

Does your stand stay pretty loose or do you have to sift through it every once and a while?

Simple answer: Well, I sift through it every few weeks to prevent any aneorobic pockets from developing, but when I do sift through it's very loose. It doesn't really pack down at all, but between my fish digging through it and me combing through it, it doesn't really have a chance to.

Complicated answer: The play sand is argonite (aka calcium carbonate), the same stuff in a lfs, just way cheaper. The particles are formed when coral dies, then gets crushed by wave action into what a lfs sell as crushed coral, and then get crushed further into sand size particles which the lfs sells as argonite or coral reef sand. As a result of all that wave action, the sand is formed with rounded edges, and makes that fluffy kind of sand one finds in the tropics that is less resistant to compacting. Furthermore, argonite will act as a buffer in the tank, helping to keep your pH at the levels a lot of African cichilds experience in their native habitat.

This is compared to quartz sand, also known as silica sand. Quartz sand is by far more common, and is found on most beaches. It is simply crushes quartz rock, and since quartz is a crystal, it's edges are sharper and the sand compacts firmly. However, it proves to be a good sand for tanks where low pH is desirable, as quartz is inert and will not affect an aquarium's water chemistry.

Sorry if that's too much information

There is no such thing as too much information. Thank you very much, you answered pretty much everything that I would have asked you later Now, to find this stuff, luckly I have quite a while before I need it.

BTW, what is the best way to rinse sand like this?

 

[PK Tester]

I was considering getting shell dwelrs also...How hard is it to maintain this sand? Do you gravel vac it? Or do you actually have to take it out...and clean it everyonce and a while? Thanks so much!

 

[rossmort]

I was considering getting shell dwelrs also...How hard is it to maintain this sand? Do you gravel vac it? Or do you actually have to take it out...and clean it everyonce and a while? Thanks so much!

I haven't ever owned any but from what I understand, you vacume it but just by "wanding" the vacume over the top to stir off any solid pieces that are on top of it. Also, people say to "stir" it every once and a while. Other than that... I don't really know, they seem so much fun though and the look is great.

 

[PK Tester]

Ross...what if you have a powerfilter? Can it clog your filter and your filterpad? Thanks so much!

 

[rossmort]

I can't give you an answer from experience but it seems that once the sand settles and bacteria gets all in it that it stays down. I know that there is one guy in here at least, that is using that HD sand and he didn't mention that problem but again, I am speculating. I would most likely be using a canister filter or larger HOB--Obviously no UGF can be used.

Wait, by powerfilter do you mean a power head? I guess I just wrote that out not for sure what that term means

 

[PK Tester]

Powerfilter mean HOB

 

[TankGirl]

Power filter generally means a HOB filter.

I keep a sand cichlid tank (CaribSea Sahara Sand - GREAT sand for this purpose, though pricey) and the sand will indeed work its way into your filter, especially with those busy, digging shellies. It is a very wise idea to put a sponge over your filter intake to act as a pre-filter, trapping the free particles of sand. It has to be cleaned often, but is worth it in the long run. The fish will keep the sand moved around so much that you won't really have a problem with packed, anaerobic spots.

Vac'ing involves, like you say, waving the syphon hose over the surface and for the most part the debris gets suctioned off. You will get some sand through the tube so if you use a Python to do this you will get sand down your drain, so keep that in mind, and cover the drain with a sponge, as well.

 

[krap101]

i was wondering can you use the play sand in a freshwater since it raises you ph if im not mistaken but i think i dont got it right did you start talking about another sand?

 

[TankGirl]

I have used playsand that was not aragonite, but inert silica sand (quartz, as mentioned above).

 

[krap101]

i found this site and it might be some use to you

http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php#3

 

[shawmutt]

i found this site and it might be some use to you

http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php#3

The only thing about that site is the picture labeled as coral sand is actually labeled crushed coral in a lfs. Also, the picture of the play sand is not magnified as much as the silica sand. The particles of the play sand (at least the sand I got from Home Depot) are larger than the particles of quartz sand at Home Depot.

BTW, what is the best way to rinse sand like this?

To clean the sand, take a 5 gallon bucket, and fill half-way with sand. Take a garden hose (if you live in a house this is easy, if you live in an apartment you may need to get creative) and fill the bucket up with water. Let the water overflow onto the ground--the silt and clay size particles will wash out, leaving only sand size particles. To expedite the process, you might want to stir the sand up with a broom stick or similiar apparatus.

i was wondering can you use the play sand in a freshwater since it raises you ph if im not mistaken but i think i dont got it right did you start talking about another sand?

Certain species of fish, like the shell-dwelling cichlids rossmort wants, will benefit from the properties of the play sand. However, IME, this sand does not affect the water quality to an appreciable degree. That's not to say it won't raise the pH of a tank with a lower pH.

 

[Guest]

My water got really cloudy when I added the play sand. How long does it usually take for it to settle down or is there anything I can do to clear it?

 

[TankGirl]

Did you follow the procedure that Shawmutt suggested? If so, and it is still cloudy, I would reckon a couple of hours. It could take longer if it was not thoroughly rinsed prior to going in the tank.

Even in the best of cases, it is a good idea to set a plate or bowl or other object in the tank and let the water you fill the tank with hit that instead of striking the sand directly, and it stirs it up less that way. I would not try to take any measures to get it to clear, as it just needs time to settle.

 

[Guest]

I followed the procedure and its been 24 hrs. I guess it's because I left the water in. I just traded out substrates. This isn't a new tank.