Have lost almost all my fish!! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[freshwatergal]

I have lost almost all my fish! At the beginning of last week my Black Neon's came down with a case of ick. So I went to Wal-Mart and got Ick Clear by Jungle. I used it one day and they all look fine. So I did a 25% water change and then used Fungus Clear by the same company like it said on the back of the box. Because of the first bought of Ick I lost the two Black Neon's who had Ick the worst. Within the last few days I have flushed two Black Phantoms, 1 Gold Tetra, 1 Blue Gourami and 1 Red Phantom Unfortunately it looks like I might have to flush my silver dollar soon, as well as a rainbow fish. Does anyone have any suggestions? Should I just do a complete overhaul on my tank and just start over. Clean everything really good? Any advice anyone can give me would be very helpful. THANKS!

 

[Allivymar]

Hiya and welcome to Aquariumadvice freshwatergal.

Ugh. That sucks. I really hate Jungle's Ich Clear; there is no way a med can treat ich in one day. I'm betting your fish still have ich, possibly in the gills where you can't see it. That combined with the fungus meds (its says to use it after the ich meds without a reason?) also was probably enough to really stress the fish, as both meds are heavy duty, and one needs to be completely removed before even starting the other.

Take a peek here: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32 . It will give you a clearer explanation of ich, and why it can't be treated in one day, as well as some other treatment options.

In the meantime, I would do a MAJOR water change (50% at least) and put some carbon in the filter. Once all the meds are out, then you can start on a new treatment (maybe by tomorrow morning).

 

[freshwatergal]

Well, I did a major water change yesterday...over 50% I do believe. I have a 20 gal. high tank. They say to use the fungus med to treat any secondary infection. (Bacterial I do believe). I have always had a tank until I moved to my new apartment then I didn't set one up until recently. My mother has an iridecent shark of mine, well over 3 years old, that is absolutely huge. I take care of her tank, and all her fish survive, so I know I know what Im doing. lol. I am using an old ornament from my previous tanks, could this be causing a problem as well? Thanks.

 

[Terry]

Totally agree with Alli on this one.

I do hate it when a manufacter of a chemical product tell you to do a small water change then add another product. Mixing 2 chemicals together is IMO always a bad thing.
Do a 50% water change and put the carbon in to remove what ever is left in your water. Hopefully the meds will be out within 24hrs, then check what fish are left for signs of disease.
If any of the fish are showing any signs of anything post back and let us know.

 

[Allivymar]

They say to use the fungus med to treat any secondary infection. (Bacterial I do believe). (

"They" get on my nerves *grin*

Seriously tho, one should never treat UNLESS one knows exactly what one is treating for. Also, Ick Guard claims to treat secondary infections caused by the parasite wounds; why would they then want you to add a Fungus guard unless there is actually signs of fungus? Grrrr...I hate the way aquarists are taken advantage of at times. Jungle Labs are NOT on my good list today.

Good on ya for the major water change. Always the first thing to do when there's probs (long as temps and pH match). Fresh, clean treated water is always a good thing. Unless there was some illness in the other tank, I doubt the ornament is an issue.

I am wondering why ich raised its ugly head. Did you add any new fish? What are the water parameters? It had to be introduced somehow, and something had to reduce the fish's immune system for ich to take hold.

 

[BrianNY]

I went through the same thing during the summer. I believe the disease was introduced with the purchase of some aquatic plants. Tetras are very susceptible to this disease. Fortunately I lost only a few.

I raised the temp to 82 and added 1 tsp of "aquarium" salt per 5 gallons. The tank was disease free in 48 hours. Good Luck!

 

[freshwatergal]

As I just set up my tank a few weeks ago, I have introduced new fish. But I think I know what fish caused it, maybe I am wrong, as the black neons developed it first. Yesterday when I did the water change I wiped down the inside of my tank as I was taking the water out, and there was some sort of slime that had a yellowish tint to it. I just completed another water change (probably not a good idea) taking out all of my ornaments and soaking them in a salt bath. They also had the slime coating on them. I did not check the water parameters because I had done so many water changes in the past week, I really didn't think that would have anything to do with it. I have put the carbon back in the filter to get what meds remain. I will wait 24 hours (hopefully not losing anymore fish) and see what happens. Thanks for everyones help!! :?

 

[freshwatergal]

Anyone ever heard of Novalek products? I went to my local Per Supplies Plus today and picked it up. It's called "Prevent-Ich".

 

[Allivymar]

I went n looked it up, and have to say I have serious doubts about its effectiveness. Its made of "herbal" products, and I have never seen any research which indicates ANY "herbs" are useful in the treatment/prevention of ich. It is a Kordon product, which also makes some much better ich treatments, such as Rid-Ich. It does say its not for the use of established ich infections.

If you are going to treat with meds for ich, I'd suggest Rid-Ich or QuickCure; people seem to have success with those. The only thing I have read which MAY prevent ich outbreaks is Aquarisol, but I have no personal experience with it.

 

[jsoong]

I may be stirring up a can of worms here...

One thing that is touted as ich prevention is salt, at least in pond fish circles. Since you can treat ich with 0.3% salt, it stands to reason that keeping that level of salt in your tank all the time may well prevent ich. I know there are strong feelings for & against keeping salt in the tanks all the time, but I know at least 1 lfs that routinely keep salt in all their tank to prevent ich outbreak in overcrowded conditions.

I've read an interesting approach in an older goldfish book. The person suggests using 0.3% salt routinely during QT, but no salt in the main tank. He reasons that the stress of the move is likely to bring on ich, and he may as well treat/prevent it right from the start. Also salt will kill off a long list of nasties that may be in the lfs, so you lessen the chance of bringing them into your main tank.

Sounds reasonable, so I think I'll try it with my next purchase.

 

[Allivymar]

Actually, keeping a 3 ppt level of salt on a regular basis is not a truly effective way to prevent ich. In the following article, you'll see in the salt treatment section ich has been know to survive in levels of up to 5 ppt. Is why in my article, I suggest raising the salt levels 2-3 ppt ABOVE what the tank is normally kept at. Plus, its a fairly high level of salt for a FW fish; short term its ok, but I wouldn't recommend keeping salt at those levels for most FW fish for longer periods of time.

http://aquanic.org/publicat/usda_rac/efs/srac/476fs.pdf

 

[freshwatergal]

Hello again...Ok it's almost been 24 hours (I think I have like an hour left). I did the 50% water change yesterday, still some white spots. I put 5 tblesp. of salt in last night before I went to bed, and now I have some sort of cloudy film on the walls of my tank again. I'm going to go to the lfs tonight and get a sponge to wipe the walls down. The rainbow fish do not have as many white spots on them as they did yesterday. My silver dollar however, well he does not really look worse for the wear. He still has many white spots, plus his tail and fins look jagged. Ammonia levels are .5-1 ppm, pH is off the charts, coming in at the hightest level on my test chart of 7.5. Should I add some pH down? Again, I am going to lfs to get a test for nitires tonight after work.

 

[BrianNY]

If your ammonia is high, nitrites are probably too. Your fish are definitey stressed and more susceptible to infections. Here is what I would do....You should be able to buy a pad which will absorb the ammonia at your lfs. Leave that in your tank for a few days. You will know it's working if it turns brown. Raise the temp to 85. The salt takes 48 hours to kill the ich parasites. Don't mess with the pH yet. A sudden change can stress them even more. Good luck, but you will probably lose some more fish at this point.

 

[freshwatergal]

I didn't think my ammonia was high. According to my chart that's rather good.

 

[BrianNY]

Anything that registers is high. In a fully bakanced and cycled tank the ammonia should be 0. Ammonia actually burns the fish. IMO any level stresses the fish.

How long has your tank been set up? Did you add a lot of new fish at one time? This will cause a spike in both ammonia and nitrites.

I did the same thing when I first started and I lost a bunch of fish, not to the ammonia, but to the ick that followed.

 

[freshwatergal]

Well, I just set my tank up about 2 weeks ago. There was probably a few days between adding all my fish. With my water changes, almost complete, I would think that stuff wouldn't be that high. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[BrianNY]

Well unfortunately fish waste and feeding produce pollutants in the water. The bacteria needed to balance these waste products need time to develop from the fish waste and the food you feed. A new tank will always go through this, and adding too many fish at one time overloads the whole process.

You are actually dealing with a closed ecosystem. Every change you make affects that system. But take heart, you will create a great aquarium. I can tell from the questions you are asking.

 

[juliemichelle]

I recently went through a bad case of ich with an uncycled aquarium. I'll be a pain in the behind with my constant endorsement of this product because I had a mixed community with loaches and cichlids and a pleco--most of the ich products weren't recommended for those fish. I tried CopperSafe by Mardel and turned my heater up to 82 and within 24 the spots were gone!! CopperSafe is added to my aquariums once a month as a preventative and I don't have to worry about bringing home new fish because any ich they might have won't turn into a large outbreak because of the monthly addition of Coppersafe. It cost me around $16 for enough to treat almost 500 gallons of water. Meanwhile the other stuff (Ich Guard and Ich Guard II) make my loaches sick and I think killed my little plecos. Also this doesn't affect my good bacteria--no cloudy water after treatment. Don't forget to vacuum really well after the spots disappear to get rid of any ich babies that may be in the gravel!

 

[freshwatergal]

Ok...went out and bought a whole test kit today. (High range pH, pH, Nitrite, and Ammonia) Nitrite= 0 ppm, Ammonia=.5-1.0 ppm, pH=7.6, High Range pH=8.0
Any thoughts?

White spots are still there...Anyone heard anything about Quick Cure by Aquarium products? I do believe I used it before and liked the results. Do you think I have too many meds in my water? Should I wait like a week until I try something else? I really don't want to lose anymore fish.

Another thing is I can't seem to get my water temp above 80.

 

[Allivymar]

The ich meds folks seem to be most happy about are Rid-Ich and QuickCure (you'll notice I recommended them earlier). That being said, I have never treated ich with anything other then salt or high temps, so I personally cannot vouch for em.

You'll need to reduce the ammonia levels; your fish are already stressed by disease and you don't want them to be stressed any further. If you can get ammonia levels below .5 ppm that would be great (.25 or lower).

You will need to remove the other meds before trying a new one; a big water change and some fresh carbon for a day or so will set you up.