Help

[Smcoyle87]

Well that's a good thing! At this point don't try and do anything for it. Let your trates keep declining and your fish relax. If it gets worse, let us know.

[FishyKisses]

Originally Posted by Smcoyle87

Well that's a good thing! At this point don't try and do anything for it. Let your trates keep declining and your fish relax. If it gets worse, let us know.

Ok, thank you! I hope they all get back to normal once everything in my water is good.

[Jbrock]

Originally Posted by FishyKisses

Ok, thank you! I hope they all get back to normal once everything in my water is good.

I've lost a platy before when my nitrates were too high

[FishyKisses]

Originally Posted by Jbrock

I've lost a platy before when my nitrates were too high

I am hoping I don't lose any. They all seem to be doing pretty good. I am going to test again tonight, and decide from there whether or not to do a wc. I have prime on its way, but tracking is now saying it will be here Sat instead of Friday. Hopefully sooner! I'm not sure if I can go right ahead and add it to bring my numbers down though...anybody? I wish a store around here sold prime. I would go buy some to use while waiting on my delivery...

[pankelephant]

Prime isn't going to bring your numbers down, though it can keep your fish safe. Its primary purpose is to de-toxify your water. It removes chlorine and chloramine, and while it doesn't remove ammonia, nitrites or nitrates, it binds them such that they are non-toxic. So you'll still get positive readings for those chemicals, and your BB will still process the ammonia like it's supposed to.

I can't remember if you said - have you been using anything to condition your water during the water changes? If not, it's possible that the changes you're seeing in your fish are from chlorine or chloramine. But since we're only talking a couple of days, I would just keep an eye on it. This is where you'll have to balance the pros and cons of adjusting what's happening in your water.

In my opinion, your tank is cycling. It's possible that it's the tap water. Too much chlorine or chloramine can kill your BB. Either way, I think you can wait until the Prime arrives. When it does, do a small water change. If you're using buckets, put the Prime in the bucket. If you're using a Python or something, add it to the tank first. And the first time around I'd add a full dose for your tank.

[FishyKisses]

Originally Posted by pankelephant

Prime isn't going to bring your numbers down, though it can keep your fish safe. Its primary purpose is to de-toxify your water. It removes chlorine and chloramine, and while it doesn't remove ammonia, nitrites or nitrates, it binds them such that they are non-toxic. So you'll still get positive readings for those chemicals, and your BB will still process the ammonia like it's supposed to.

I can't remember if you said - have you been using anything to condition your water during the water changes? If not, it's possible that the changes you're seeing in your fish are from chlorine or chloramine. But since we're only talking a couple of days, I would just keep an eye on it. This is where you'll have to balance the pros and cons of adjusting what's happening in your water.

In my opinion, your tank is cycling. It's possible that it's the tap water. Too much chlorine or chloramine can kill your BB. Either way, I think you can wait until the Prime arrives. When it does, do a small water change. If you're using buckets, put the Prime in the bucket. If you're using a Python or something, add it to the tank first. And the first time around I'd add a full dose for your tank.

Ok, I misunderstood about the prime. Yes, I have been using aqua safe declorinator& conditioner for over 3 years. I normally add a full dose of the aqua safe for water changes. I have a Walmart brand water changer like a python. I love that thing!

[pankelephant]

Okay good, conditioner is good.

Prime is awesome, please don't misunderstand. It's incredibly useful to keep your fish safe while you're sorting out the chemical issues. I think it's a great choice. I just didn't want you to put it in and then be disappointed that the readings don't change.

[FishyKisses]

Originally Posted by pankelephant

Okay good, conditioner is good.

Prime is awesome, please don't misunderstand. It's incredibly useful to keep your fish safe while you're sorting out the chemical issues. I think it's a great choice. I just didn't want you to put it in and then be disappointed that the readings don't change.

I just misunderstood and thought it removed the nitrates and nitrites. I ordered two bottles, so hopefully that will last a while. I am willing to do whatever it takes to keep my fish healthy! I have been looking into canister filters as well. I have heard nothing but good about them. I'm just not sure how they are different than hob filters.

[FishyKisses]

Ok everyone, here are my latest test results. This is three hours after a water change. Still not perfect, but my numbers are coming down and fish are acting happier!

[FishyKisses]

The nitrate reading is actually more orange than red now. I got my Prime in the mail today, but I'm not exactly sure how to use it...

[pankelephant]

How long after you did the test did the nitrates look orange? In the pic they're solidly 40ppm.

Everything else looks good to me. It's hard to tell in the pic, but I think your ammonia is close to zero. Next time try moving the bottle a bit away from the colors, like you did with the pH test - it's easier to see that way. You might want to do the high pH test, just for info. But it's not that important in the grand scheme.

Prime is pretty easy. You can dose it right into the tank or you can do it with a water change. I don't have the bottle in front of me, but I think it's 2 drops/gallon; it says on the bottle. For now, even if you do a water change, you should dose for the whole tank. I think your tank is 20? You'll put 40 drops in this time around. In the future, you only dose for the amount of water you replace. You can't overdose on Prime, so although you want to stick with what the bottle says, don't worry if you lose count of the drops.

[FishyKisses]

Originally Posted by pankelephant

How long after you did the test did the nitrates look orange? In the pic they're solidly 40ppm.

Everything else looks good to me. It's hard to tell in the pic, but I think your ammonia is close to zero. Next time try moving the bottle a bit away from the colors, like you did with the pH test - it's easier to see that way. You might want to do the high pH test, just for info. But it's not that important in the grand scheme.

Prime is pretty easy. You can dose it right into the tank or you can do it with a water change. I don't have the bottle in front of me, but I think it's 2 drops/gallon; it says on the bottle. For now, even if you do a water change, you should dose for the whole tank. I think your tank is 20? You'll put 40 drops in this time around. In the future, you only dose for the amount of water you replace. You can't overdose on Prime, so although you want to stick with what the bottle says, don't worry if you lose count of the drops.

It was five minutes after the mixing was complete(and if course the 1 minute of vigorous shaking) it looked more on the orange side to me.

I have a 29 gallon. I will move them farther away next time! Should I add prime now? I used aqua safe for the wc.

[pankelephant]

It won't hurt, but I don't think you need it right now. Aquasafe is a good product - the only think it's not doing is de-toxifying the ammonia/nitrites/nitrates in your tank. But since you seem to have brought the levels down, I don't think it's critical.

That said, if it were me, I'd add some.

[FishyKisses]

Originally Posted by pankelephant

It won't hurt, but I don't think you need it right now. Aquasafe is a good product - the only think it's not doing is de-toxifying the ammonia/nitrites/nitrates in your tank. But since you seem to have brought the levels down, I don't think it's critical.

That said, if it were me, I'd add some.

Ok, I will go ahead and add a full dose. My fish seem much happier now that numbers have dropped. I am doing everything y'all are telling me to. Do you think I should do another water change tomorrow? How much if so? Do I need to turn the filter off to add the prime? For how long? I'm sorry for all the questions!

[pankelephant]

You don't have to turn your filter off; it will have no effect one way or other. If your numbers are good tomorrow, wait a day to do a water change. You need to find out if your water has stabilized and you can only find that out if you leave the same water in for a couple of days. If your numbers are rising again tomorrow though, do the w/c.

[FishyKisses]

Originally Posted by pankelephant

You don't have to turn your filter off; it will have no effect one way or other. If your numbers are good tomorrow, wait a day to do a water change. You need to find out if your water has stabilized and you can only find that out if you leave the same water in for a couple of days. If your numbers are rising again tomorrow though, do the w/c.

Ok, I am hoping they will stabilize soon! I just want a healthy tank for them! Is 40ppm a good number for nitrates?

[pankelephant]

Under 50ppm is essential, and you really want to keep it under 20.

So, I know you know about the nitrogen cycle in general, but let me just go through this in a bit of a different way. You have two kinds of bacteria in your tank. The first is nitrosomonas. It consumes ammonia and oxidizes it into nitrite. The second bacteria is nitrobacter. It oxidizes nitrite into nitrate. This is the basic process of the nitrogen cycle.

There are two things to point out here. First, the amount of ammonia produced in your tank (by leftover food and waste) is directly proportional to the amount of nitrate you end up with. Think ice cubes: you melt one ice cube and you get 1x amount of water. You melt 10 ice cubes, you get 10x amount of water. Make sense?

So if you have high nitrates, it's because your tank is producing high amounts of ammonia. Clearly your bacteria are doing their job, otherwise you'd see high ammonia and high nitrites. That's not happening - your bacteria are chugging right along. But the consistently high nitrate readings are indicative of the fact that your tank is producing a very significant amount of ammonia. Here's the problem: there aren't any bacteria to get rid of nitrates.* Plants will help some, but there's an underlying problem that needs to be addressed.

First - how well have you cleaned your tank? I mean *really* cleaned it? It's possible that there is waste collected in the gravel or sand or under the decorations or whatever that is constantly producing ammonia - far beyond what your fish are doing on their own. Do you have live plants? Do you have sand or gravel?

Once you're sure your ammonia has stabilized and isn't rising after 2 or 3 days without a water change, I would suggest cleaning your tank. By that I mean removing every piece of decoration, every fake plant and all the gravel (if you have it). Take out about half the tank water (in a bucket) and wash everything in that. Do it a bit at a time with a strainer so you get as much muck off as possible. Also be sure to vacuum the bottom of the now-bare tank. Then put everything back in your tank and re-fill it. Your water will be cloudy for a little while but the filter should take care of it.

If you have sand there are more steps, but I'm thinking you have gravel? Let me know if not.

The other possible cause is your stock. Your frog produces a lot of waste. So do your platys and so does your pleco. Not much can be done about that if you want to keep all your fish.

The bottom line is that the nitrate in your tank is what's left over after removing the other, more toxic chemicals. While live plants will help, really your only option is to change the water. Once everything has stabilized (which I'm guessing has already happened) and after the tank is well-cleaned, you may be left with high nitrates all the time. A heavy stock will do that do you.

Sorry for the book, but I wanted to make sure you understand what exactly is going on in your tank so that you can make educated decisions about what to do. Hopes this helps.




*There are, actually, micro-organisms that will process nitrates. But they're exceedingly difficult to keep alive in an aquarium environment and can be ruled out for the home aquarist.

[FishyKisses]

Originally Posted by pankelephant

Under 50ppm is essential, and you really want to keep it under 20.

So, I know you know about the nitrogen cycle in general, but let me just go through this in a bit of a different way. You have two kinds of bacteria in your tank. The first is nitrosomonas. It consumes ammonia and oxidizes it into nitrite. The second bacteria is nitrobacter. It oxidizes nitrite into nitrate. This is the basic process of the nitrogen cycle.

There are two things to point out here. First, the amount of ammonia produced in your tank (by leftover food and waste) is directly proportional to the amount of nitrate you end up with. Think ice cubes: you melt one ice cube and you get 1x amount of water. You melt 10 ice cubes, you get 10x amount of water. Make sense?

So if you have high nitrates, it's because your tank is producing high amounts of ammonia. Clearly your bacteria are doing their job, otherwise you'd see high ammonia and high nitrites. That's not happening - your bacteria are chugging right along. But the consistently high nitrate readings are indicative of the fact that your tank is producing a very significant amount of ammonia. Here's the problem: there aren't any bacteria to get rid of nitrates.* Plants will help some, but there's an underlying problem that needs to be addressed.

First - how well have you cleaned your tank? I mean *really* cleaned it? It's possible that there is waste collected in the gravel or sand or under the decorations or whatever that is constantly producing ammonia - far beyond what your fish are doing on their own. Do you have live plants? Do you have sand or gravel?

Once you're sure your ammonia has stabilized and isn't rising after 2 or 3 days without a water change, I would suggest cleaning your tank. By that I mean removing every piece of decoration, every fake plant and all the gravel (if you have it). Take out about half the tank water (in a bucket) and wash everything in that. Do it a bit at a time with a strainer so you get as much muck off as possible. Also be sure to vacuum the bottom of the now-bare tank. Then put everything back in your tank and re-fill it. Your water will be cloudy for a little while but the filter should take care of it.

If you have sand there are more steps, but I'm thinking you have gravel? Let me know if not.

The other possible cause is your stock. Your frog produces a lot of waste. So do your platys and so does your pleco. Not much can be done about that if you want to keep all your fish.

The bottom line is that the nitrate in your tank is what's left over after removing the other, more toxic chemicals. While live plants will help, really your only option is to change the water. Once everything has stabilized (which I'm guessing has already happened) and after the tank is well-cleaned, you may be left with high nitrates all the time. A heavy stock will do that do you.

Sorry for the book, but I wanted to make sure you understand what exactly is going on in your tank so that you can make educated decisions about what to do. Hopes this helps.



*There are, actually, micro-organisms that will process nitrates. But they're exceedingly difficult to keep alive in an aquarium environment and can be ruled out for the home aquarist.

I understand all that you wrote! I cleaned my tank pretty good last week. I took out all the plants and decor, and vacuumed really well. I did not take the gravel out though. Should I remove my fish before taking the gravel out? I imagine so...but thought I'd ask. I'm not going to test my water again until tonight, and I will post the results. I am going to try to hold off on a wc until Sunday. Hopefully, my numbers will still be good, or I'll do a wc before. I'm really happy with progress so far. My fish are swimming around like crazy! I am thinking part of my problem may be over feeding. They always seem hungry, so I feed twice daily. I give them a good amount, and its always all gone within a minute or two. Maybe I should only feed once a day?! My frog only wants to eat once every two or three days, but she has always been like that.

[FishyKisses]

Just tested nitrates again...
Not sure why it looks darker in the pics than it does while holding it. When I am holding it, it looks to be at 20ppm, in the pic it looks like 40ppm...

[FishyKisses]

Just an update...I have decreased feeding to once a day. Everything that I read about the fish I have says that is ok for them. Nitrates are the same. Fish are looking very well!

Question: it seems as though my nitrates have somewhat leveled off. Should I continue trying to get them down? I am planning on doing a 30% wc tomorrow, and that should help a bit. I can't believe the difference in my fish! I was at 160ppm to start, and now at 40ppm...they are much happier! Ammonia is still at 0...