Help with new tank setup...UGF or...

[benlink3]

Ahh! The power of the forums!
I need to turn to the powers that be, that reside in this forum.
I am in the process of getting a 20 gallon tank.
Not too sure what will go into my tank.
Live plants, rocks formations, and caves are sure bet for now.
I am thinking maybe some new price-worthy Convicts with dark and rich colors or my beautiful Cichlisoma Spilurum pair.
Few questions, just to give you guys something to do when not in TVLand.

1. Undergravel Filter or Hangover Filter, both or just one?

2. Easy care-free plants? Which ones grow pretty, and show colors best?

3. Air Pump - how big should it be? For a 20 or bigger?

4. Considering I want a well-planted tank, what type of lighting should I use? I think there is two types?

5. Anything else I should include?

6. Anything I should get to help with algae?

7. Whats the least size heater, watts or etc..., I should get?

8. Anything else to help me out with would help.

Considering this is my first tank over 10 gallons, suggestions will be very helpful and appreciated.

Thank you all in advance, for i know this is the most helpful forum.

Ben

 

[tkos]

1. HOB. The UGF is no good with plants and most people have stopped using them anyway as they tend to clog after time and can lead to problems. AC 200 is a good choice.

2. Water Sprite, Java Fern, Swords (get huge though and need trimming), Java Moss, Hornwort, grass plants

3. No air puimp needed with HOB in a 20 gallon.

4. Flourescent lights are a must. Around 2 watts per gallon is needed as a minimum. Much higher can lead to algae growth if you aren't careful. Lower and stuff won't grow and you will get algae.

7. 3-5 watts per gallon for a heater. So go with a 100 watt heater. The more the spend the better the quality. Buy the best you can afford and it will last longer.


Convicts: 2 max per this tank size and no other fish. They will be super aggressive. And really with any cichlid you should have plants as they can be plant ripper uppers. With cichlids you will probably want a sand bottom instead of gravel but that is your choice.

I am sure there are going to be lots of other great suggestions coming soon.

My question to you (get this out of the way first): What are your water parameters, pH, hardness? This can help determine what types of fish are best for you.

 

[LondonGman]

1. The main article that everyone links to argue against using the UGF is
http://www.bestfish.com/ug.html

while those that use UGF it will relate to the article linked here
http://www.petlibrary.com/fw_trops_ugfilter.htm

Most members here swear by the powered filter while I do like my 4 jet variable power air pump

2. My friends, offline, recommends bright plants to make the tank look brighter. I do not know what the one pictured below are called but the fish love swimming around it and it grows in my UGF gravel

3. If you are getting an air pump for an UGF, I would recommend getting a powerful multi jet one. Apparently the UGF is prone to clogging up so have two uplifts on both ends of the tank to keep water circulating through the entire length of the gravel. Also it is nice to have a long airstone on the gravel itself. All that would require 3 air outlets. You could alternatively get splitter valve.

If it is just to supplement a separate powered filter then it depends on what you want it forAlso make sure that they are quiet.

4. I don’t know

5. Fish

6. I swear by the small bristle nose pleco keep my tank crystal.

7. I don’t know

8. Get books. You can never have too many books as they have nice pictures of fishes you may or may never have. Also lots of useful data on water temperature, fish compatibility, etc

 

[JamesMJ2]

I would suggest a Penguin or Emperor power filter(HOB) I love my mine. Maybe a small canister xP1 or ECCO 2231. I think everyone covered everything else.

 

[benlink3]

No air puimp needed with HOB in a 20 gallon.
Is this only true in a 20 gallon?
What about in a 10 gallon, can i get away with only a HOB, or do I need an air filter as well?

Thanks for all the help!
Ben

 

[JamesMJ2]

You don't need the air pump because oxygen will osmose into the from the atmosphere. Also the HOB will cause surface turbulance which will aid in the exchange of gases. I pretty sure it true for just about any size tank. In fact the smaller tanks don't even need the surface turbulance. Oxygen can exchange fast in enough in a very small tank, since there maybe one or two fish that are using that oxygen.

 

[benlink3]

Well I got my two 10 gallons running a HOB and an air pump.
My five is only running an air pump, till I get my sponge filter put in.
Sound right?
Or should I lose the air pumps in my 10 gallons?
Ben

 

[JamesMJ2]

Is your ten gallon an established tank. If so then you can lose the air pump, provided your HOB has the capability to filter your tanks volume. You can also just leave the air pumps in, having them there doesn't hurt anything. Unless your growing plants. Air pumps do a couple things in tanks. If used with UGF, the create a current downwards,If the pump is just putting air into the tank then it oxygenates the water, but it also causes some release of toxins and gases to be release from the water into the atmosphere. You can do either or as long as the filtration thats there is established.

 

[benlink3]

The filters I got are for 10 - 15 gallon tanks.
They should work right then, hey?
Ben

 

[JamesMJ2]

If you have the power filter, you really don't need the air pumps. Especially if you want to keep live plants. Just curious what brand of Power filter did you get? Just make sure you give the filtering media time to establish bacteria.

 

[benlink3]

I have a Penquin mini, and a Whisper 10.
Ben

 

[captainGregor]

UGF and HOB

I see there is a widespread opinion against UGF's. I am setting up my 55 ga freshwater and right now ordering stuff from bigalsonline and was under strong impression that combination of UGF and HOB is the best way for filtration (having a HOB that is). My HOB is Emperor 400, so you guys are suggesting that that filter alone can provide all 3 levels of filtration? What about water circulation that the powerhead would have created? Do i still need to worry about it? Please advice.

 

[ferret]

Emperor 400s are labelled as being 'up to 80 gallons' but they can reliably filter a 125 by themselves, depending on the stock, to my knowledge. My 90 gallon cichlid tank actually has 2, because I bought one cheap off a friend for cheap, and the cichlids make a lot of waste anyways.

The UGFs.. I looked into these at one point, but decided against them. Everything about them seemed to suggest that they were too much hassle and that my fish would just dig it up anyways, which would cause it to be inefficent. Also it forces you to use larger gravel than you might have wanted to use in your tank.

 

[LondonGman]

Re: UGF and HOB

I see there is a widespread opinion against UGF's.

not entirely. Most members here do but I use UGF and have seen a LFS shop run entirely on UGF and a couple of large air pumps. Click these links to read the opposing arguments
against http://www.bestfish.com/ug.html
for http://www.petlibrary.com/fw_trops_ugfilter.htm

I am setting up my 55 ga freshwater and right now ordering stuff from bigalsonline and was under strong impression that combination of UGF and HOB is the best way for filtration

I will not trust a tank that size to UGF alone but I have no experience with filter

What about water circulation that the powerhead would have created?

this is the reason why I prefer UGF as it circulates water through the gravel and every square inch of the tank while power filters tend to localise there filtration. There is certainly no circulation of water through the gravel

Do i still need to worry about it?

Nah, it is a hobby. Be concerned; but do not worry

 

[peterp]

Water circulation? The Emperor 400 is moving 400 gph or the AquaClear 500 moves 500 gph. That is quite a bit of movement depending on the type of fish you plan to have.

I only have a penguin 300 on my 33 gal planted community and it is making too much water movement, I think all the water turmoil is negating the CO2 generator.

On my 120 rift I have a Emperor 400 and a Ehime 2217 and may consider adding a powerhead.

BTW the only tank I use a airpump on anymore is my hospital tank to drive a sponge filter.

 

[captainGregor]

everlasting battle

Thank you guys for sharing your ideas. I actually have not bought the filter yet, but was aiming at Emperor or Penguin 330. I figured that if I have UGF and powerhead, I will buy 330. Otherwise, the Emperor. I have not thought of the type of fish yet, but definitely want to have planted tank. Today I will go to LFS and get the tank, I already built a hardwood stand for it, it ROCKS. So, once I have the tank, the gravel and little bacteria starter, I will get the rest of the stuff while tank is cycling. I believe on the issue of UGF there will never be a consensus, but I can attest to the fact that it pulls all the debree, the poop and food to the bottom of the tank, under UGF (my 7G is a perfect example of that) and I could see that without one, I can easily vaccum the gravel, otherwise it will all sit at the bottom. I am still undecided on the issue. All comments are greatly appreciated.
Captain