Help With Nitrates

[Guinness]

I think the stock is causing it, I have several in a 55 gallon with other fish and the nitrates are killer to maintain.

Would it be over stocked? 8 discus at 4 inches and a gold nugget pleco at 3"

If the discus were adults I would understand it but not at that size surely. Maybe that is what's wrong, there is only one way to find out and that is to take some out I suppose, not that I have anywhere to put them lol.

 

[blert]

If it is a 66g then, yes, it is well overstocked. If it is an 80g then it is slightly overstocked. Grab a tape-measure and do the math to be sure.

Causes of high nitrate:
- Overly large bio-load... Possibly.
- Dirty filtration system... Cleaned.
- Dirty substrate... Thorough gravel vac every other PWC.
- Inadequate PWC routine... Increase to 50% twice a week (more until the nitrate is under control).
- High nitrate in source water... Using RO.
- Over feeding... Reduce food amount and frequency combined with extra gravel vac.

Did I miss anything?

I can't think of anything else. As I said before, I would do a bunch of back to back large PWCs to bring it down as low as possible. Then monitor how fast it climbs.

 

[Guinness]

If it is a 66g then, yes, it is well overstocked. If it is an 80g then it is slightly overstocked. Grab a tape-measure and do the math to be sure.

Causes of high nitrate:
- Overly large bio-load... Possibly.
- Dirty filtration system... Cleaned.
- Dirty substrate... Thorough gravel vac every other PWC.
- Inadequate PWC routine... Increase to 50% twice a week (more until the nitrate is under control).
- High nitrate in source water... Using RO.
- Over feeding... Reduce food amount and frequency combined with extra gravel vac.

Did I miss anything?

I can't think of anything else. As I said before, I would do a bunch of back to back large PWCs to bring it down as low as possible. Then monitor how fast it climbs.

Ok it's def a 80g tank.

Substrate is sand and is vacuumed every water change. Emptied both canisters today and rinsed media in tank water. Nitrates have dropped a little, will do another 50% change on Thursday then re-test.

 

[tropical-fish]

Sounds like bang on the mark with your stock level. It's a bit strange that after such a large water change that the nitrates doesn't drop more.

I may have missed it on the earlier posts but that are u feeding and how often? Any sign of nematodes in the substrate? Maybe one type of food is fouling the water very quickly. Just a thought.

 

[Guinness]

Sounds like bang on the mark with your stock level. It's a bit strange that after such a large water change that the nitrates doesn't drop more.

I may have missed it on the earlier posts but that are u feeding and how often? Any sign of nematodes in the substrate? Maybe one type of food is fouling the water very quickly. Just a thought.

I only feed discus pro once a day just a little not to much, and once a week one cube of bloodworm instead of the discus pro. I was feeding a little more than that before I noticed the high nitrate. That's the part I don't understand either why it doesn't drop after a water change.

 

[Barakis]

It's a long shot, but is your nitrate test new or over a year old?

I had a dodgy batch from API in my last kit, they sent me a new nitrate kit to check and my result differed 20-60 ppm. (New test 20ppm old test 40/80ppm on the same water sample).

Basically, I haven't read the entire thread, but if your PWC is not changing trates at all, try a controlled water sample, could be your test kit.

 

[Guinness]

It's a long shot, but is your nitrate test new or over a year old?

I had a dodgy batch from API in my last kit, they sent me a new nitrate kit to check and my result differed 20-60 ppm. (New test 20ppm old test 40/80ppm on the same water sample).

Basically, I haven't read the entire thread, but if your PWC is not changing trates at all, try a controlled water sample, could be your test kit.

Hi. The test kit is brand new. I have even received a new API nitrate test kit from api after I phoned them to explain my problem. Still the same result. I have cleaned all filter pipes out vacuumed the sand changed water like it going out of fashion, thrown the canister water away rinsed the media out in tank water, cut back on feeding. Still the same result. I'm stumped.

 

[Barakis]

Have you tested source water? My tap gives out 44ppm nitrate. Apart from that the only other issue would be stock but I think that looks fine. Sorry bud lol.

 

[blert]

I can't think of anything else. Did you do many large water changes, back to back, to bring nitrate down as low as possible and then watch how fast it rises?

 

[Guinness]

Have you tested source water? My tap gives out 44ppm nitrate. Apart from that the only other issue would be stock but I think that looks fine. Sorry bud lol.

I only use RO water for my discus tank, I have tested it before I use it and it comes out with 0 nitrates. It's very strange mate and extremely frustrating. :-(

 

[Barakis]

I would take a sample to a decent LFS with photos, they might just get something you have missed. But I'm out of ideas mate sorry

 

[Guinness]

I can't think of anything else. Did you do many large water changes, back to back, to bring nitrate down as low as possible and then watch how fast it rises?

After I cleaned all the filter pipes out emptied the canisters and rinsed all media in tank water the nitrate dropped a little only by 10ppm left it for a day and did a 75ltr w/c left it for about 4hours and did another 75ltr w/c still showing the same results a nitrate level of 60-80ppm. Confused.com.

 

[Guinness]

I would take a sample to a decent LFS with photos, they might just get something you have missed. But I'm out of ideas mate sorry

Yea I will do that, I'm outa ideas too, it's so frustrating. All fish are fine healthy and swimming and eating. If discus were stressed or unwell there colour would have darkened they would be in the corner of the tank all huddled up. There colour is as good as I have ever seen, I have a friend who owns a lfs he is stumped too. He did ask to buy the discus from me as they were some of the nicest ones he had seen for a while. Very strange.

 

[blert]

After I cleaned all the filter pipes out emptied the canisters and rinsed all media in tank water the nitrate dropped a little only by 10ppm left it for a day and did a 75ltr w/c left it for about 4hours and did another 75ltr w/c still showing the same results a nitrate level of 60-80ppm. Confused.com.

75ltrs in a 300ltr tank is not much at all. Consider this... If the nitrate is at 60ppm and you change 100ltr then the nitrate will still be 40ppm. If you again do another 100ltr right away the nitrate will now be down to 27ppm. Do it again and it will be at 18ppm. With small water changes you get very diminishing returns.
Let's start at 60ppm again... A 200ltr water change will get you down to 20ppm right away. Then do another 150ltrs and that gets you down to 10ppm. If you then do another 150ltr you will be down at 5ppm. See what I mean. You need to do back to back LARGE changes to get it down.

 

[Guinness]

75ltrs in a 300ltr tank is not much at all. Consider this... If the nitrate is at 60ppm and you change 100ltr then the nitrate will still be 40ppm. If you again do another 100ltr right away the nitrate will now be down to 27ppm. Do it again and it will be at 18ppm. With small water changes you get very diminishing returns.
Let's start at 60ppm again... A 200ltr water change will get you down to 20ppm right away. Then do another 150ltrs and that gets you down to 10ppm. If you then do another 150ltr you will be down at 5ppm. See what I mean. You need to do back to back LARGE changes to get it down.

Ok I see what your saying, does that not affect the water chemistry changing that much water over such a short time? And how do you heat all that water up? I use RO water and it's only about 10 degrees. I have no way of heating that amount of water. Do you have any ideas?

 

[blert]

Ok I see what your saying, does that not affect the water chemistry changing that much water over such a short time? And how do you heat all that water up? I use RO water and it's only about 10 degrees. I have no way of heating that amount of water. Do you have any ideas?

It shouldn't change the water that much and should be perfectly safe since it is from the same source you always use. It would be an issue if you were to change sources. Maybe give about a half an hour between changes to give your fish a period to adjust.

That is a problem. I am assuming you mean 10c (so 50f for me). So you need to raise it 30f (or about 17c for you).
What is the temp and weather like outside? Could you make a very large batch of RO and leave it out in the sun to warm up?
There is always the microwave after it has come up to "room temp". If I need to raise the temp of my well water I usually nuke a gallon to a boil in the microwave and add it to my five gallon jugs, that usually brings it close enough.

 

[Guinness]

It shouldn't change the water that much and should be perfectly safe since it is from the same source you always use. It would be an issue if you were to change sources. Maybe give about a half an hour between changes to give your fish a period to adjust.

That is a problem. I am assuming you mean 10c (so 50f for me). So you need to raise it 30f (or about 17c for you).
What is the temp and weather like outside? Could you make a very large batch of RO and leave it out in the sun to warm up?
There is always the microwave after it has come up to "room temp". If I need to raise the temp of my well water I usually nuke a gallon to a boil in the microwave and add it to my five gallon jugs, that usually brings it close enough.

Lol I live in England! We never have sun, it's very wet at the moment with flood warnings all over. They might get washed away if I leave them outside lol, I'm joking it's not that bad.
I like the idea of microwaving a portion of the water. That sounds like my only option.

 

[Guinness]

It shouldn't change the water that much and should be perfectly safe since it is from the same source you always use. It would be an issue if you were to change sources. Maybe give about a half an hour between changes to give your fish a period to adjust.

That is a problem. I am assuming you mean 10c (so 50f for me). So you need to raise it 30f (or about 17c for you).
What is the temp and weather like outside? Could you make a very large batch of RO and leave it out in the sun to warm up?
There is always the microwave after it has come up to "room temp". If I need to raise the temp of my well water I usually nuke a gallon to a boil in the microwave and add it to my five gallon jugs, that usually brings it close enough.

Could I do 100ltr water change today and another 100ltr water change tomorrow, I only have 4 x 25ltr drums. I have tried to get some more but as yet can't find any that are available. I was wondering if that would have the same effect? My only other option is to take 200trs out the tank put the 100ltrs back in then go and get the empty drums filled straight away to finish the 200ltr change.

 

[Guinness]

Ok so I did a 200ltr water change tonight, the nitrates have dropped to just 20-30 ppm. Tomorrow I will dump the water from the filters and see if that brings it down a bit more. At least I'm getting somewhere now.

Blert

I did what you suggested with the water to heat it up, worked a treat. Thanks for the tip. And I think you are right I wasn't changing enough water for it to make a difference. thank you for all your help.

Thanks to everyone who commented on my post to offer advice I really appreciate it.