High pH won’t go down

[Cohenjl13]

So recently, about 2 months ago, I got a new job and with it came a little fluvel Spec that was very neglected with some tetras in it. The tank was all fake inside with blue stones so I cleaned it up planed some Anubis and put in seachem substrate with some spider wood.

Now it’s been sitting for a couple months and I can’t get the PH below ~7.8. I have tried to dose a little excel daily since I can’t have a co2 set up in the office and I have had cappatta leaves in there for a couple days now.

Short of adding pH down chemicals every morning I don’t know how to get it to drop any more.

The only reason I mention this is because there is a noticeable difference in color and activity of the fish when I put in pH down in, they become brighter and more active but after the weekend when the pH goes back up I come in to faded colors and lazier fish.

Suggestions? I can’t any anything else that plugs into an outlet and I don’t want to change he substrate unless everyone feels like that’s he only way

Seachem Fluorite Clay Gravel, 7.7 lb https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GJX0S8Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_9SKjAbAVATYEY

 

[coralbandit]

The proper method to lower pH is to mix RO or Distilled water with your source.
My tap is 7.6 and I raise my rams in it.
The leaves may help and wood might also although their effectiveness will wear out over time and they will leach tannins if they are any help.

 

[Cohenjl13]

Great I will start using a distilled water mix hopefully it helps

 

[coralbandit]

Test in a bucket with measured amounts of each and adjust till you get what you want. Then in the future doing water changes you know to mix lets say 2 g distilled with 3g tap.
How are you testing? With API liquid kit.
I use a TDS meter for my re mineralized water.I know I want X TDS and I mix till I get it.I don't test anything else. I only do this for fish who desire softer water like my rams and apistos.
Live bearers and other prefer the harder water and I actually supplement that by adding minerals.Again the TDS meter is the tool to use.
HM meters are among top of the line and what I use so no real reason to skrimp.
HM 4 TDS meter is $15 shipped.

 

[BBradbury]

Hello Coh...

It's never a good idea to mess with the water chemistry. If you're keeping a basic tank with basic fish from the local fish store, then a pH of 6.0 to 8.5 is fine as long as the pH is steady. You accomplish this through large, frequent water changes. Most of the water needs to be changed out at least a couple of times every week in small tanks up to 30 gallons.

You don't need to add anything to the water except a product that removes chlorine and chloromine and detoxifies nitrogen. Just change out a lot of tank water and often.

B

 

[Potluck]

Hello Coh...

It's never a good idea to mess with the water chemistry. If you're keeping a basic tank with basic fish from the local fish store, then a pH of 6.0 to 8.5 is fine as long as the pH is steady. You accomplish this through large, frequent water changes. Most of the water needs to be changed out at least a couple of times every week in small tanks up to 30 gallons.

You don't need to add anything to the water except a product that removes chlorine and chloromine and detoxifies nitrogen. Just change out a lot of tank water and often.

B

I don't know why you keep saying most of the water needs to be changed out every week as that's not true, I do 30% weekly /bi weekly and my water is always pristine 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 7.4 pH, 15-20 nitrate, phosphate 1.2, kh/gh both at 6, 30% weekly is fine in a maintained tank I personally would never do more than 50% in one change but I know people do, not questioning your methods but to big of a water change on say a neglected tank will do more harm than good, in that situation you would want to do multiple small water changes so the fish don't go through shock from the change in water parameters.


I'm not an expert by all means and I could be wrong but every single lfs I've went to/called said never do over 50% on a well maintained tank unless it's a catastrophic situation.

You're correct in a basic fish will be fine in his pH range but I would try to get it lower with aquarium safe peat in a bag in the filter or like CB, said mix distilled with tap.

 

[Potluck]

Have you tested the tap water for the pH? If your tap is say 7.8-8.0 then yes you will need to do what coralbandit says, if not it's something in the tank increasing it

 

[BBradbury]

Hello Pot..

I paid enough attention in my high school chemistry classes to learn that water is affected by oxygen in the surrounding air. The process is called oxyidation. Not to get technical, but water that runs through a filter is mixed with oxygen and the process removes some trace elements in the water and the fish and plants use most of what's left. Fish do all their business in the water too. So, by removing 30 percent of the water, you only replace a third of the minerals and leave 70 percent of the old toxic water in the tank.

You can certainly work up to the point you change out most of the water. I'm not suggesting changing out everything immediately. This hobby is about keeping the water waste free and the only way you do it is through large, weekly water changes.

B

 

[Angellove78]

Sounds like you cleaned it too good. And by adding new stuff to the tank, you are basically starting over. Did you clean the filter too? If so, it's gonna take some time for the ph to get down again. Still do water changes. It will get there. As long as all other tests are good I'd leave it and let it cycle.

 

[ZxC]

I have a tap pH of 8.2 and I use 18 liters RO to 2 liters tap and am left with kH-4, gH-6, pH-7.0-7.2. I am a big fan of mixing tap with RO, plants are healthier, fish seem much healthier. When I used to use straight tap only a handful of fish really lived a prolonged life, I talking with other hobbyist they tend to agree, a high pH is really not ideal, even if you slowly acclimate livestock to it, they just don't seem healthy in the long run.
As for water changes, My tanks are the same pH/kH/gH for the most part (as close as I can get them) as the new water I am changing it for, plus EI dosing so a 50% is fine. I top off with straight RO and overall my tanks stay nice and stable.

 

[Potluck]

Hello Pot..

I paid enough attention in my high school chemistry classes to learn that water is affected by oxygen in the surrounding air. The process is called oxyidation. Not to get technical, but water that runs through a filter is mixed with oxygen and the process removes some trace elements in the water and the fish and plants use most of what's left. Fish do all their business in the water too. So, by removing 30 percent of the water, you only replace a third of the minerals and leave 70 percent of the old toxic water in the tank.

You can certainly work up to the point you change out most of the water. I'm not suggesting changing out everything immediately. This hobby is about keeping the water waste free and the only way you do it is through large, weekly water changes.

B

I get that part, but what I'm saying is say a tank has a pH of 8.1 ammonia of 1.0, nitrate of 80, this said persons tank hasn't had a water change in a day over a month their source water is say 0.5 ammonia, 0 nitrite, ph of say 7.2 and nitrate 1ppm, they see and maybe misread what people have posted not you in specific as I see many people say big huge water changes, so they do say a 70% water change on advice from people's posts on the forum, their fish are going to likely die from a massive pH drop, and nitrate shock and water chemistry changes.


If a tank /fish are used to getting 50% 2x weekly it won't affect them because they will not have the fluctuations in the water chemistry as let's say my tank that gets 30%-40% weekly, I would have to work up to it say 2 25% a week for a few weeks, then 30-35% a few weeks then 40-50% over a gradually time so I don't shock my fish and kill them.

As far as my tank my plants actually grow better if I do 30% rather than 2-3 25% a week as I've tried it out of sheer experiment, I don't run co2, I only use flourish root tabs, liquid and excel.

Tbh I'm probably doing closer to 40-45% weekly as my tanks a 55 gallon which only holds roughly 48 gallons of water empty, I have a 2"substrate bed+ decor etc etc so I probably only have 38-40 gallons of water total, I replace 15 gallons a week which is 5 gallons shy of 50% but my fish are used to it cause I do it like clockwork.

What I'm saying is pretty much a person that's starting off that don't know what a pwc change is and hasn't done one and their tank is shambles they should start with lower % pwc's multiple times a week instead of 2 big ones right?

 

[Potluck]

I have a tap pH of 8.2 and I use 18 liters RO to 2 liters tap and am left with kH-4, gH-6, pH-7.0-7.2. I am a big fan of mixing tap with RO, plants are healthier, fish seem much healthier. When I used to use straight tap only a handful of fish really lived a prolonged life, I talking with other hobbyist they tend to agree, a high pH is really not ideal, even if you slowly acclimate livestock to it, they just don't seem healthy in the long run.
As for water changes, My tanks are the same pH/kH/gH for the most part (as close as I can get them) as the new water I am changing it for, plus EI dosing so a 50% is fine. I top off with straight RO and overall my tanks stay nice and stable.

I agree with you, I don't run RO/DI as my pH isn't high it's actually really good for the fish I keep, yes I could go lower to say 7.1-7.2 but I don't feel I need to as my fish are in a range from 6.8-8.0.

The op needs to first test their tap to see what the pH is to make sure it's the source water that's raising the pH not something in the tank, if it is the source water they're never going to lower the pH hence why they need to mix RO /DI with it and lower the pH slowly, not in one shot as a drastic pH drop will most certainly kill his fish.

50% weekly is fine for a maintained tank that's matured but I personally would rather do it 2 x25%, but with a tank that has say old tank syndrome if they do a huge pwc it's going to shock the fish from the drastic changes in water chemistry.

My Main concern with the ops post and the responses is that they might do it to fast and kill their fish from shock to the system .

 

[ZxC]

I agree with you, I don't run RO/DI as my pH isn't high it's actually really good for the fish I keep, yes I could go lower to say 7.1-7.2 but I don't feel I need to as my fish are in a range from 6.8-8.0.

The op needs to first test their tap to see what the pH is to make sure it's the source water that's raising the pH not something in the tank, if it is the source water they're never going to lower the pH hence why they need to mix RO /DI with it and lower the pH slowly, not in one shot as a drastic pH drop will most certainly kill his fish.

50% weekly is fine for a maintained tank that's matured but I personally would rather do it 2 x25%, but with a tank that has say old tank syndrome if they do a huge pwc it's going to shock the fish from the drastic changes in water chemistry.

My Main concern with the ops post and the responses is that they might do it to fast and kill their fish from shock to the system .

Absolutely, small water changes more often are key to keeping a tank stable. I am a firm believer in stability being in the top 3 things to successful and healthy tanks. I only mentioned the 50% because it's what I need to do because I am following the EI dosing schedule.

OP test your tap water and see if it is the source of higher pH, or if something in your tank is causing the high pH. Substrate and rocks are some of the biggest culprits in causing pH change.

Once you find the source, then proceed to SLOWLY adjust to your preferred parameters as the others have suggested. Do know that if you decide to have adjusted parameters you have to keep a closer eye on them so you aren't constantly changing them around, stressing out your livestock.

 

[Cohenjl13]

Right now I change 2 gallons (20%) every Friday for the pea puffer and I don’t mess with anything else to much

 

[ZxC]

Sorry, I missed when you mentioned you had fluorite, so I doubt it is causing the pH to rise. Do you have any decor in the tank? rocks and such?

 

[Cohenjl13]

I have two small stones and two pieces of spider wood, the LFS said the stones shouldn’t change the ph to much but the more and more I think about it it might be the only reason, that with city water that’s high ph already

 

[ZxC]

I have two small stones and two pieces of spider wood, the LFS said the stones shouldn’t change the ph to much but the more and more I think about it it might be the only reason, that with city water that’s high ph already

You could take a bowl of water, let it rest until you test a stable pH, place one of the stones in it, test again the following day and see what the results are.

 

[Cohenjl13]

I’ll give that a try and replace them if needed.