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Old 01-12-2007, 10:05 PM   #1
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Hmmm... to sand or not to sand...

Asking your guys advice...
Okay- I have a 20 gallon community- it has....
3 female bettas
4 dwarf platys
1 male guppy
2 speckeled mollies
2 kuhli loaches
5 threadfin rainbows
1 female groumie
3 cory cats
2 snails
And a basket full of baby swordtails, mollies and endler livebearers
I know- I am overstocked
I currently have a tank down (the heater got cracked)
which is where my male betta lives so he moved to my 5.5 where the females lived so....
I got a new "biOrb" heater tonight and it will be pluged in tomarrow... and the fish will be moved back to their hopfully permenate homes!
So minus the female bettas and the babys im at... a good number ish...

Anyways I would llike to convert my tank to black or white sand... I am not sure how I would do this or if I should...
Any Advice welcome

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Old 01-12-2007, 10:35 PM   #2
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Are you talking about converting the tank that is down? or the tank with the fish in it. If you are talking about an existing tank, there is a good article about doing just that. I think that all black makes the fish colors really stand out. Something like Tahitian moon sand has a good look imo .
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Old 01-12-2007, 10:51 PM   #3
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mm arnt u overstocked
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6 Rummy Nose, 9 Ottos, 2 Yoyo Loach, 1 Golden Nugget Pleco, 2 Julli's Cory, 4 Angelicus Botia, 1 Chocolate Kuhli Loach, 3 Ghost Shrimp, 1 SAE, 1 Black Mollie, 1 Redeye Swordtail Mollie, 1 C-Pleco, MTS, Guppy's
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:30 AM   #4
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4 dwarf platys ,1 male guppy ,2 speckeled mollies ,2 kuhli loaches 5 threadfin rainbows ,1 female gourami and 3 cory cats are still too many for a 20 gal tank.

The kuhlis need lower temps than the other.
The mollies need salt and the cories can`t handle salt. It looks like you need to do some fish profile researching. 8O
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:56 AM   #5
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why do the mollies need salt?
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Old 01-13-2007, 09:24 AM   #6
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Mollies do better in brackish tanks, but they can do just fine in pure FW as well, so don't worry about those. Most mollies in LFS have been aquarium-bred in pure FW in any case, so it's what they know. They just prefer warmer and saltier environments than most LFS and people keep them in.

I personally don't think you're too overstocked if you keep up with regular PWC and have good filtration. If you are to remove anything, I would take back the female gourami.

Re the actual question: I'm normally a gravel person myself, but recently reestablished my brackish puffer tank with a sand substrate (part crushed coral and part marine white, in order to buffer pH). I have to say, I prefer gravel. It's a real pain to clean in comparison (smaller gravel vac essential or you'll lose some of your substrate each time), and also more unsightly with debris. You should also be aware of the need to keep it aerated to avoid anaerobic patches forming: gravel doesnt have this problem. But, you have kuhli loaches which burrow so that will be helpful.
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Old 01-13-2007, 09:42 AM   #7
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I started with gravel in my 55, switched to sand, and am now back to gravel. The sand, when clean, really does look nice. Like coldmachineUK said, though, it's a real pain to clean compared to gravel. You should be prepared to up your pwc schedule, because two days of fish poop on sand makes it look like an underwater port-o-potty! With your stock, I would stick with gravel.
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Old 01-13-2007, 01:46 PM   #8
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mm just a comment, the people that have planted tanks that need sand or finer substrate like eco-complete, tahitian moon sand, pool sand, florite etc. they cannot shake the substrate because of the plants, so they just do a slight vac over the substrate. for the forming of gases they get malaysian trumpet snails that barrow and shake the sand.
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75g/Rena Xp3/Inline Heater/Rena Air 200/Eco-Complete/Current Dual Daylight System
6 Rummy Nose, 9 Ottos, 2 Yoyo Loach, 1 Golden Nugget Pleco, 2 Julli's Cory, 4 Angelicus Botia, 1 Chocolate Kuhli Loach, 3 Ghost Shrimp, 1 SAE, 1 Black Mollie, 1 Redeye Swordtail Mollie, 1 C-Pleco, MTS, Guppy's
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Argentine Sword, Amazon Sword, Micro Sword, Xmas Moss, Pennywort, Hornwort, Jave Fern, Baby Tears, Moneywort, Ludwigia, Wisteria, Giant Bacoba, Hygro 'Sunset'
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Old 01-13-2007, 02:19 PM   #9
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MTS are good for FW tanks, sure, but no use in brackish tanks or those with puffers in (MTS are rumoured to have shells strong enough to break a puffers beak). Or, I would have taken that easy option!

With kuhli loaches you should be ok though guppy12.
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-------------------------------------------------------
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Spares: 20 Gal: Former River Conditions | 8 Gal: Former Fry Tank | 32G: Former Community Tank
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Old 01-13-2007, 02:49 PM   #10
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right but im refering for the original post that is fw.
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75g/Rena Xp3/Inline Heater/Rena Air 200/Eco-Complete/Current Dual Daylight System
6 Rummy Nose, 9 Ottos, 2 Yoyo Loach, 1 Golden Nugget Pleco, 2 Julli's Cory, 4 Angelicus Botia, 1 Chocolate Kuhli Loach, 3 Ghost Shrimp, 1 SAE, 1 Black Mollie, 1 Redeye Swordtail Mollie, 1 C-Pleco, MTS, Guppy's
Plants
Argentine Sword, Amazon Sword, Micro Sword, Xmas Moss, Pennywort, Hornwort, Jave Fern, Baby Tears, Moneywort, Ludwigia, Wisteria, Giant Bacoba, Hygro 'Sunset'
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Old 01-13-2007, 02:54 PM   #11
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Sure.

Kuhlis will probably be fine enough as it is I suspect. Perhaps another couple in the tank would work well.
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-------------------------------------------------------
36 Gal: Malawi Cichlids | 36 Gal: Brackish Puffer | 58 Gal: FW Community | 20 Gal: FW RTBS Shark | 10 Gal: FW Breeder
Spares: 20 Gal: Former River Conditions | 8 Gal: Former Fry Tank | 32G: Former Community Tank
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Old 01-14-2007, 12:26 AM   #12
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I plan on moving my fish around... I want to change all my tanks to sand.
And my tank is at 80 degrees? It that "cool" enough for the kuhlis?
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Old 01-14-2007, 11:44 AM   #13
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OK. First, I agree with coldmachineuk about the fact you'll be ok with your stocking procedures as long as you keep up on water changes. Second, I have kept and bred cories for years with salt and sometimes without salt. Either way, both have done fine. Moliies will do fine without salt, as most are tank bred anyway. I'm not up on kuhliis to answer your question, but I do believe they will adapt to your tank's specs just like any other fish would. Here's a link giving some general care info on loaches:
http://www.elmersaquarium.com/10loach_kuhlii.htm
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...fm?pCatId=1072
And finally:
http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii
Consensus seems to show that warmer temps are favored.

Sand is ok to keep up. I have 2 aquariums at the moment- one afrcian tank with sand and the othger tank with gravel. After having the 2, I think the gravel is better, but that's my opinion. With the sand, there 's more maintenance in my case: every 2-3 days hsing up debris on the sand bed and once a week striing the sand bed to keep the gas pockets in check. Otherwise, the sand looks nice, but I would'nt make my community fw tank a sand bottom one. Too much work! That's been my experience.
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Old 01-14-2007, 04:50 PM   #14
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I think you should go barebottom rather than sand or gravel . It's so much easier to clean.

And ditto on what the other have said on fish compatibility and overstocking.

Mollies are naturally found in brackish waters, but they can adapt to freshwater/saltwater. Their lifespan will be longer in brackish water.

Quote:
Second, I have kept and bred cories for years with salt and sometimes without salt. Either way, both have done fine.
Was that with aquarium salt or marine salt? With aquarium salt, you'll be fine, but not with marine salt.......
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