I need some help with my fishless cycle!

[ryorgason]

I have a 30 gallon I am trying to do a fishless cycle with. I started on 8/30 and added ammonia until I got a high reading, but I think I may have added too much. Then I kept adding ammonia daily, and nitrites showed up on 9/3 and were up to 5 ppm on 9/6. On 9/6 nitrates showed up on the tests. On the 12th nitrites were down to .25 ppm, and on the 13th nitrates were at 10 ppm.

I added ammonia every day until the 12th when I skipped a day because it wasn't going down, then I added some on the 13th, and then skipped the next 3 days. This whole time ammonia was high, around 6 ppm, and finally went down to 4-5 ppm on the 16th, so on the 17th I added a little ammonia and it went back up again. I have not added any since then, but it is still at around 6 ppm, and nothing else seems to be changing much either. I did a 5 gallon water change yesterday, but ammonia was still the same afterwards.

What can I do? Do I have to start all over, or do a larger water change, or am I just being impatient? At the beginning of the cycle I added the rocks from my 2.5 gallon, and about halfway through I took the hiding rock out of the 2.5 and put it in the 30 gallon.

 

[JamesMJ2]

STOP ADDING AMMONIA... I understand you may have been trying to jump start your bacteria, but you put way way to much ammonia in. You need to have a little patience if you are going to be an aquarist. Just let the tank cycle. You may want to change out 20% of the water. Your water would be toxic to just about anything that goes in a fish tank. The ammonia at this point might even be killing off your good bacteria. I would try to get your ammonia down to 3.0ppm at the most. even lower with the nitrites .50ppm maybe. After your get those levels down just let the tank cycle. What kind of set up do you have? Have you planned out what kind of fish your going to keep, and what those fish are going to require? e-mail me if you have any questions TJorris@socal.rr.com

 

[ryorgason]

I haven't added ammonia since the 17th. I did a 10 gallon water change today, and checked the ammonia a few hours later and it was about 5-6 ppm still. I also added some aquarium shells from my 2.5 gallon, along with the small sponge filter that was in there. That leaves my betta without a filter, but I think he'll be okay for a few days like that.

I have a millenium 3000 filter along with an under gravel filter and a heater that is set to about 71. I plan on putting my betta in the 30 gallon once I'm sure it's safe, and also getting some other fish. I'm thinking of getting a school of neon tetras, some corydoras and otocinclus, a dwarf pleco, and maybe some amano shrimp. Those are all suggestions given to me by someone else, but I am still open to other suggestions as I am new to all this.

 

[Allivymar]

Its possible the high amounts of ammonia mucked up those nitrifying bacteria. The mature filter along with no more ammonia may start things up again. I do have to ask tho, what are you using to treat the water? If its one of those ammonia removers that may be part of your prob. They don't remove ammonia, they convert it to a non-toxic form, which Nessler ammonia tests register as ammonia (they can't tell the difference between toxic and non-toxic). Plus the converted ammonia doesn't feed the bacteria as well.

Just a thought.

Also, a 30g tank is a nice size tank and one you can really have fun with. I'd leave the Betta in the 2.5g (he'll be happier there anyway) and maybe look at some slightly bigger fish for the 30g. Maybe angelfish or some of the other cichlids, or gouramis. Also, I wouldn't do a plec and otos; both will be competing for algae. Plus, you don't want to add them until there is some algae for them to feed on. The corys would work well in there too as will the shrimp.

 

[ryorgason]

I have 2 different water conditioners that I have used in that tank, both say they remove chlorine, chloramine, and heavy metals but neither says anything about ammonia. I did a 50% water change this afternoon, and now the ammonia is down to about 4ppm! Will I need to add a little ammonia later on to feed the bacteria, or what should I do from here?

As for the betta, there a couple reasons I want to put him in the 30g. We recently bought a house which has horrible windows and it will probably be drafty in the winter and I have no heater for the small tank. Also, the best place I could find to put the small tank was on a bookshelf which often gets knocked, making the tank move and bothering him. Plus, I'm a little afraid of it being knocked off the bookshelf, as it isn't the most stable place for a container full of water. It's also hard to do water changes as there isn't much space between the top of the tank and the bottom of the shelf. Anyway, I was planning on just getting rid of it as I don't have a good place to put it anymore.

 

[Allivymar]

Don't add any more ammonia until all of it has been converted and registers 0; then only add around 3 ppm (maybe 2 drops). With 4ppm in the tank there is plenty for the bacteria to chow on right now

I can see why you wouldn't want to put the small tank on the bookshelf. I agree, it would probably stress the heck out of the lil guy getting banged around, much less being knocked over

Since he is going to go into the big tank, I would keep with the small fish already suggested. You could do a large school of neons, which would be georgeous to watch. Just know neons can be VERY tetchy, and many don't initially survive. Once they get past the 2 week QT period, they tend to do fine. You may have better luck as it seems the stock on the East coast is not as healthy as the West coast stock.

 

[ryorgason]

I just tested my water with the following results:
ammonia: slightly above 0
nitrites: about 1.5
nitrates: 7-8
I am very excited, I didn't expect it to change that fast, thanks so much for your help! So tomorrow should I add just enough ammonia to get 3 ppm, and keep adding that much every day until nitrites are at 0 too?

One more question, how many neons should I get?

 

[Allivymar]

Yep! Add maybe 2 drops of ammonia; that should give you between 3 and 5 ppm ammonia. Don't add too much; you don't want the nitrites to spike TOO high or it may stall the cycle. Just enough to keep the bacteria from starving.

You could add a good sized school of neons in a 30g; I'm thinking starting with 15 (hopefully they will all make it!) neons and 6 corydoras. One dwarf plec and 5 or 6 shrimp will be a nice place to start. You may want to consider QTing the fish first. It would suck to add them all and then find out they're sick and you have to medicate. Most meds muck up the bacterial colonies and I'd hate for you to have start all over again after working so hard.

 

[ryorgason]

What is QTing, and how do I do it?
My ammonia was at 0 today, even after adding some more, but I resisted the urge to keep adding it as I've already made that mistake.
I keep reading about White Clouds, so I did a little research and am thinking of getting those rather than neons, as it seems they are hardier. Would they do alright with my betta and the others I want to get? Or could I get a small school of white clouds, and another small one of neons?

 

[Blatchy]

QTing would be quaranteening meaning having another tank where you place your fish before you introduce your fish to your main tank. I dont have one but many do primarilly it is there so that you can examine the fish closer without adding new diseases etc to your main tank that the fish may have.

Im not sure about QTing but from what I gather is that they use these when they already have fish in their main tank primarilly to ensure the fish is healthy and also less stressed through not being harassed immeadiately by the other fish in the tank.

About your other questions I can help you.

 

[mound]

when I did my first fishless cycle, I tried calculating the amount of ammonia to add, added like 3 CUPS rather than X drops.. NH3 was waaaaaay off any tester scale.. the whole room stunk like a toilet, but it settled down eventually and the tank cycled in 14 days.. (125G)

 

[ryorgason]

Do I need to quarantine if I have no other fish in the aquarium yet? I was thinking I'd add all or most of the new fish, and wait awhile to make sure everything is okay before putting my betta in there. Wow, 3 cups of ammonia? Now I don't feel so bad, I started out with 4 tsp. The cycle seems to be going slowly, nitrites haven't been changing, and nitrates haven't either. Must have patience!

 

[peterp]

Did all the fish come from one tank, or from a LFS that uses a large common filter for all their tanks, or uses common nets for all tanks withour steralizing them? Chances are they are either all well or all ill.

They are cost efficient but I am not a fan of the large common filters modern pet shops use these days(can you tell I am "over-the-hill" ).

For the initial fish residents I would put them in and use the new tank for the quarantine period.