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Old 08-25-2005, 10:11 PM   #1
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Ignore - Fish passed

Hi there

1- Fish is a female dwarf gourami. When I looked last night and tonight I've noticed her sitting on the bottom of the tank on the gravel, not really moving around. When I put in food, she swims up a little to grab flakes falling to the ground, then normally floats down again, although she does have a perfect appetite. She looks somewhat wider than the other females in the tank.

2- Nitrite=0, amonnia=0, ph of 7.4 (same as our tap-water) and the temp is 78.

3- Tank is 29 gallons, been up and running for about a month and a half, maybe a bit more.

4- Using a penguin bio-wheel 200 for filtration

5- In the tank - One forlowella catfish(around 6"), four gold dojo loaches (two around 4", other two 3"), two moonlight gourami (3"), 3 male dwarf gourami (around 2"), and three female dwarf gourami (around 1.5", although effected fish is a bit larger)

6- I generally do both water change and partial gravel vacuum once every week or so. Done one water change since the female dwarf's were introduced, maybe 2 days after they were acclimated.

7- I have had them for 4 days (since monday). I acclimated by first putting their bag in the aquarium for 15 minutes. Then I put them in a small bucket, and siphoned water through an airline tube with a knot in it from the tank to the bucket until the water level in the bucket tripled. then I netted them out of the bucket into the tank one at a time.

8- Nothing new has been added since I got the male dwarf gourami and moonlight's (about 1.5 weeks ago). Also introduced an anubias barteri plant.

9- I feed them a variety of different foods on different days/time of day:
-Big als staple flake food
-Big als spirulina flakes, which I don't place on the top, I place in the water for it to float to the bottom
-dried blood worms occasionally
-frozen bloodworms every other day
-frozen brine shrimp every other day
-occasional spirulina disk for loaches

My males have been building bubble nests, so I was hoping maybe she was producing eggs? She is definately wider than the other females and she is the biggest (all around).

I have made a qt tank today, but it hasnt really cycled. Has some newly aquired java moss (heaps of it) for hiding, and is only half full of water. Should I siphon water from my other tank to fill it and move her? Or would it be too late if it was a spreadable disease? Non of the other fish are dusplaying the same symptoms yet.
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-29 Gallon-
4 Dwarf Gourami (2male, 2female),
2 Moonlight Gourami,
4 Gold dojo loaches
1 Forlowella catfish


-15 Gallon-
12 feeder guppies

-15 Gallon-
4 fire bellied newts
1 ablino clawed frog
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Old 08-25-2005, 10:33 PM   #2
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If she's spawning, she's going to need her mate, the bubble nest, and shallow water. (So I hear, no personal experience.)

I would never assume it's too late to isolate an ill fish unless everyone in the tank has it. The other fish have immune systems, and may not yet have caught the disease even if it's in the water. Pulling out the disease breeder will put less stress on the healthy ones' immune systems.
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Old 08-25-2005, 11:00 PM   #3
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Would a gravid gourami have troubles like that? I'm primarily worried about moving her if it's stress that's causing this, as I feel that would stress her out even more (not very cycled tank).

I saw her go to the top to get air a couple of times, so that was good, but she just goes back down right away Also, it looks like one of her feelers is bent at the end.

Are there any medications I should try?
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-29 Gallon-
4 Dwarf Gourami (2male, 2female),
2 Moonlight Gourami,
4 Gold dojo loaches
1 Forlowella catfish


-15 Gallon-
12 feeder guppies

-15 Gallon-
4 fire bellied newts
1 ablino clawed frog
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:50 PM   #4
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Well I moved her, this morning she was sort of tipping over on the bottom. When I went to net her though she darted around pretty well.

Now that shes alone is there a medication I should try? I wanna get her back in the community tank asap, felt REALLY bad moving her
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-29 Gallon-
4 Dwarf Gourami (2male, 2female),
2 Moonlight Gourami,
4 Gold dojo loaches
1 Forlowella catfish


-15 Gallon-
12 feeder guppies

-15 Gallon-
4 fire bellied newts
1 ablino clawed frog
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Old 08-26-2005, 05:34 PM   #5
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No wounds, fuzzy white stuff, spots, raised scales, etc? Just slow and chubby? Could be an internal parasite, could be bacterial, could be constipation. I'm going through the same thing with mine right now, only mine isn't eating. I tried Maracyn-Two first, and I saw minor improvement, but she's still not eating. I'm going to try adding Maracide or a copper med to the antibiotic. If she's eating, try feeding parboiled peas. That will take care of consitpation.
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Old 08-26-2005, 09:33 PM   #6
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I saw her going to the bathroom last night, so I'm fairly sure it isnt constipation. Got my water params checked and in the main tank ammonia is zero, nitrite is zero. In the qt tank the ammonia is something like 0.5 around there, but thats because it hadnt cycled properly before I moved her.

I went to the LFS that I bought the females at and noticed they had more than were there before. Most noticable though, was around 7 of the fish were displaying the same symptoms, and they had removed the price sticker from the tank.

It would seem if so many other fish had the same symptoms in the tank at the LFS, that it is a parasite? Does maracyn 2 combat that kind of thing?
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-29 Gallon-
4 Dwarf Gourami (2male, 2female),
2 Moonlight Gourami,
4 Gold dojo loaches
1 Forlowella catfish


-15 Gallon-
12 feeder guppies

-15 Gallon-
4 fire bellied newts
1 ablino clawed frog
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Old 08-26-2005, 11:57 PM   #7
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maracyn 2 is an antibiotic. If it's a parasite, you probably want a copper based medication.
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Old 08-27-2005, 02:46 AM   #8
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I don't know what to tell you about her treatment, but I would do lots of water changes in her tank as the ammonia will stress her more. Good luck, I hope she is ok.
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:58 AM   #9
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Most of the medicaitons you could try will harm the biological filter anyway. Do the water changes and use something like Prime if that isn't enough to keep the water pure.
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:49 PM   #10
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Now she isnt eating
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-29 Gallon-
4 Dwarf Gourami (2male, 2female),
2 Moonlight Gourami,
4 Gold dojo loaches
1 Forlowella catfish


-15 Gallon-
12 feeder guppies

-15 Gallon-
4 fire bellied newts
1 ablino clawed frog
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Old 08-27-2005, 02:16 PM   #11
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See if you can entice her with something tasty, like a bloodworm, krill, or peas even. Not eating is a bad sign in terms of treatment. If the other fish in the tank at your LFS has it, than you have found your source. You could ask them what they are doing to treat the tank.

Otherwise, you could start with some anti-bacterial meds. If it is an internal parasite, she probably would have stopped eating long ago, and would have started to become thin and weak, instead of growing in the belly. The best way to treat this however, is with a medicated food. Most anti-parasite meds treat parasites externally only, and not internally. Sadly, the same can be said with internal bacterial infections as well. They are not easy to treat.

Keep up on your water changes however, and keep your ammonia level to as close to zero as possible. IMO, the best thing you can do now is provide as healthy an environment as possible for her, and treat accordingly.

HTH
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:03 PM   #12
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I tried peas, even tried feeding her by putting tiny pieces on a toothpick right by her mouth (she's stopped trying to get away from my hands) and she wouldnt eat it.

Someone suggested it might be swim bladder disease? They said try giving her an epson salt bath for ten minutes, one tablespoon to the gallon. Tried that once so far this evening, and did a pretty big waterchange while she was bathing.

They also suggested codliver oil, which I havent tried yet.


What would be a good anti-bacterial medication? And if it is a food medicine, should I force feed her? What is the best way to do so?


Thanks so much for the enfo so far, feels good to actually be doing something to try and help, be it water changes etc.
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-29 Gallon-
4 Dwarf Gourami (2male, 2female),
2 Moonlight Gourami,
4 Gold dojo loaches
1 Forlowella catfish


-15 Gallon-
12 feeder guppies

-15 Gallon-
4 fire bellied newts
1 ablino clawed frog
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:24 PM   #13
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She died

Thanks for the help everyone, much appreciated. Fingers crossed the others don't get it now
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-29 Gallon-
4 Dwarf Gourami (2male, 2female),
2 Moonlight Gourami,
4 Gold dojo loaches
1 Forlowella catfish


-15 Gallon-
12 feeder guppies

-15 Gallon-
4 fire bellied newts
1 ablino clawed frog
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Old 08-27-2005, 09:22 PM   #14
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Sorry, Sharpy.

Keep an eye on your other fish, for any signs on the same disease.
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:16 PM   #15
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Definately medicate then. Mine is going on 5 day not eating, but she's still hanging in there. I still hope to lick whatever is wrong.
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:31 PM   #16
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Did you ask your lfs if their fish were being quarantined and what if anything they had? To find out for future reference and also maybe they would give you store credit for another fish.
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Old 08-28-2005, 01:29 AM   #17
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So far so good with the other fish, all floating fine and eating like crazy.

I'm going to call the LFS tommorrow and ask if their fish are still in qt. They had taken the price sticker off last time I was there, I'm assuming thats their version of quarantine. I buried the fish in the front of the house, so unless they don;t need the body (which I doubt) I won;t be getting a refund. Only fish I would buy right now is another female dwarf gourami, but that won't be for awhile.
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-29 Gallon-
4 Dwarf Gourami (2male, 2female),
2 Moonlight Gourami,
4 Gold dojo loaches
1 Forlowella catfish


-15 Gallon-
12 feeder guppies

-15 Gallon-
4 fire bellied newts
1 ablino clawed frog
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Old 08-28-2005, 02:43 AM   #18
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Sorry about your loss
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Old 08-28-2005, 07:16 AM   #19
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Sorry for your loss.

Mine is a fighter apparently, she keeps hanging on, but the overall trend is downhill. She only moves now if touched. I'm afraid I'll be next to post a death.
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