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Old 10-14-2013, 01:22 PM   #81
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**UPDATE**
Ive tested my ammonia after a few hours have passed

Im confused it should be zero

Ive tested my water out the pipe and its the same
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:35 PM   #82
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Dont worry about it Dman I was just as shocked when I learned this. Your right a "good" vaccuming will destroy you BB in the gravel. Each week you should do half the gravel very well then the next week a normal wc and the next week the other half of the gravel then the fourth week a normal wc and repeat.

It seems we may have found the source of the ammonia problem. Hopefully this was it and your fish can go back in tomorrow. I would still wait to make sure the ammonia is stable before putting the gravel back.

If you like DIY projects I would build a custom UGF (under gravel filter) and get some pvc to connect your intake from the hang on back filter. This will pull all that gunk from the bottom and trap it in the filter for easier cleaning.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:41 PM   #83
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**UPDATE**
Ive tested my ammonia after a few hours have passed

Im confused it should be zero

Ive tested my water out the pipe and its the same

This is a much lighter green than before isnt it? Hard to tell from the pics but I think it is. The stuff we kicked up was mostly removed but im sure a tone of it is in the filter now to.

Severum's idea will now work im 99.99% sure of that. We have allmost fully gotten ride of the source now a few water changes and some very gentle cleaning of the filter in old tank water to remove the debris and we will be good.

Try not to scrub or smash the filter media when cleaning. We just want to knock out the debris that was picked up when removing the gravel. Remember the debris is what was causing the ammonia.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:44 PM   #84
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This is a much lighter green than before isnt it? Hard to tell from the pics but I think it is. The stuff we kicked up was mostly removed but im sure a tone of it is in the filter now to.

Severum's idea will now work im 99.99% sure of that. We have allmost fully gotten ride of the source now a few water changes and some very gentle cleaning of the filter in old tank water to remove the debris and we will be good.

Try not to scrub or smash the filter media when cleaning. We just want to knock out the debris that was picked up when removing the gravel. Remember the debris is what was causing the ammonia.
ok I will do another WC and gently clean the filter and yes Brad it is a very lighter green
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:45 PM   #85
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In your opinion is the test result the same or lighter colored green?
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:49 PM   #86
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Left is Before and Right is After WC

Big difference
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:52 PM   #87
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Just vac the gravel entirely and good each time you water change. Vac the gravel the entire time water is draining from the tank. There is hardly any bb in the gravel it is 99% in your filter. If your tank gets that upset from gravel vac'ing then you need a bigger filter with more bio media. You don't need to do half this week and half next week. That's very old school, under gravel filter mentality.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:14 PM   #88
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Just vac the gravel entirely and good each time you water change. Vac the gravel the entire time water is draining from the tank. There is hardly any bb in the gravel it is 99% in your filter. If your tank gets that upset from gravel vac'ing then you need a bigger filter with more bio media. You don't need to do half this week and half next week. That's very old school, under gravel filter mentality.
I would disagree in some circumstances and agree in most. The bacteria actually grows on all surfaces in your tank. Water flow is needed to bring them food so this makes filters the best place for them to grow.

However this all depends on how the tank was set up. The bacteria in gravel alone can keep a tank working. If I then add a hob filter but do not change my bioload then my gravel will still have 99% of my bacteria. Your biofilter will only grow to handle the current bioload. Thats why the lfs will advise to slowly add fish and not all at once.

So if your filter and gravel where cycled together it is much smarter to vaccume half or a third a week.

If Dman runs his tank with no gravel for a while then we can say his hob filter holds 99% of the bacteria and as long as the biolaod doesnt change he can vaccum away 100% and not effect his biofilter.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:39 PM   #89
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Gravel vac'ing more will get rid of the left overs and detritus thus reducing the bio load and reducing the requirements of the bio filter. There by allowing the bb in the filter to do its job and not requiring bb in the gravel to help. And yes it does grow on everything in the tank but a few bio max pieces can house a much as there is in the rest of the tank. Your previous method and description is just shooting yourself in the foot so to speak by keeping a dirty tank to allow bb that is there to work on it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:14 PM   #90
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Gravel vac'ing more will get rid of the left overs and detritus thus reducing the bio load and reducing the requirements of the bio filter. There by allowing the bb in the filter to do its job and not requiring bb in the gravel to help. And yes it does grow on everything in the tank but a few bio max pieces can house a much as there is in the rest of the tank. Your previous method and description is just shooting yourself in the foot so to speak by keeping a dirty tank to allow bb that is there to work on it.
I dont understand? What does a top end product like biomax have to do with Dman's setup and ammonia problems?

Sure like I said a hob filter is better suited but a ugf's can handle filtration just fine and it all depends on how the tank was established.

If I have an established ugf then add all the biomax on earth the tank will still recycle if I vigorously vaccum all my gravel.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:42 PM   #91
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just did a wc of 30% gently cleaned filters
Tank became cloudy again Im hoping it will clear
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:46 PM   #92
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just did a wc of 30% gently cleaned filters
Tank became cloudy again Im hoping it will clear
Is it just me or is your tank extreamly uneven?
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:01 PM   #93
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Is it just me or is your tank extreamly uneven?
It is its the way my apartment is the whole ****ing place is uneven no matter where
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:07 PM   #94
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It is its the way my apartment is the whole ****ing place is uneven no matter where
Wow I was afraid that your tank might be stressed but now im more concerned that your apt is structurally unsound... lol

When you do your next 50% water change you should try and level out the stand. Tanks are more reliable when they have equal pressure on all 4 sides.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:13 PM   #95
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heres a pic of my other tank in another room
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:23 PM   #96
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Oh man... I dont even know what to say Dman you either have very thick carpet and padding or your place is really jacked up. Do you have any hard wood or tiled floors? I would love to see what a level looks like on thw floor. Lol

Either way I would try and put shims under my stand to try and level the tank.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:26 PM   #97
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Oh man... I dont even know what to say Dman you either have very thick carpet and padding or your place is really jacked up. Do you have any hard wood or tiled floors? I would love to see what a level looks like on thw floor. Lol

Either way I would try and put shims under my stand to try and level the tank.
I have tiled floors
should i shimmy the tank or the furniture the tank is sitting on
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:30 PM   #98
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Do you use aquarium stands or normal furniture? Whatever your response is you should shim the furniture not the tank.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:35 PM   #99
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Do you use aquarium stands or normal furniture? Whatever your response is you should shim the furniture not the tank.
both are on furniture
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:08 PM   #100
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Yea I would shim the furniture
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