Is a python in my future? (Water problems)

[Lady Cougrrr]

I've been reading about -and drooling over!- pythons to make water changes easier. (No more buckets to lug around! Hurray!) My worry is: I have a home water softener. My cold kitchen tap is bypassed, and that is the water I use for water changes -declorinated and left to reach room temperature in buckets before adding to the tank. But the bypassed water is very cold, and I'm worried that if I do a water change with the python the temperature will shock the fish.

But if I mix warm water from the tap, I'll be adding softened water to the tank.

Which would be the better way to go of these two options? Or do I have to go through door number 3, which will lead me to land of python-less bucket-lugger?

 

[mgamer20o0]

could always do more often smaller changes so the temp doesnt drop too much. i do 50% wc with cold water every week.

 

[neilanh]

How cold is cold?

Smaller, more often water changes is a possibility, like said above

Even worse case scenario, the python will eliminate having to dump buckets of old water, even if it can't help you replenish new water.

 

[missileman]

Is all of your hot water softened? I mean can you use a bathroom faucett maybe?

 

[jsoong]

Being that she is from Alberta .... the water temperature will be around 4 degrees C during winter .... <Granted, she is a couple hundred miles south of me, but not that much warmer.> That is really very cold & I won't even do 10% pwc using cold water for my goldies. <My tank is 24C, doing 10% pwc at 4C will drop my tank temp more than 2 degrees by my calculations.>

I have a 3rd option: Get a python (or just a long hose that can be attached to your faucet) and a rubbermaid container. Put the container under your tank & fill with cold water using your hose. Throw in a heater & let the water warm up. Then get a small pump to transfer the water from the container to your tank. <If you can place the container above your tank, you won't even need a pump, just use your hose as a siphon to get the water into your tank.>

 

[Lady Cougrrr]

Thanks for the replies!

Missileman, yes all my hot water is softened. I am using potassium chloride (KCL) rather than sodium, does that make a difference in whether I can use a little softened water in my aquarium? I've been using it with my betta's bowl changes and he seems to be thriving.

 

[missileman]

I honestly don't know how much effect softened water would have on your tank. Might even be good for it.
What kind of readings do you get on your tap? in particular PH and if you let a bowl of water sit for a couple of days does it change? How much?
You can always add buffers in the tank if you have to as well.
If there's a will there's a way.

 

[CTD]

Lady Cougrrr another option would be to get a plastic water storage barrel and heat and treat the water in it for PWC's.

Also never hurts to have it as an emergency water source.

 

[Lady Cougrrr]

Missileman, straight from my tap the pH is 7.5. I've never left water sit to test it...I'll try it. The pH in my tank shot up to 8.0+ after a few days, but I had added my first dose of ammonia which I've read will mess with pH. Now that my tank is cycling, the pH has come back down to 7.5 and has been staying there.

 

[missileman]

My PH is always a steady 7.4 on all of my tanks so 7.5 is a good place to be in my opinion.
Someone else will have to answer the effects of potasium chloride in the softner.

 

[jsoong]

Ion exchange softener exchanges K or Na for the Ca & Mg in the water. You need 2 K or Na for each Ca exchanged. Water that had been through an ion exchanger so have higher osmolarity (or TDS) than unsoftened water. If the starting GH is very high, softened water will have such a high salt content that it is not very good for fish (or plants.)

At a tap of 7.5 pH, the GH is only moderate, so I would think that the softened water would only have 500-600 ppm of K. K is much preferred in a softener system compared than Na. <Planted tank people can overdose K without too much problem ... but not so with Na.> I think you can probably mix in softened & unsoftened water at 1:1 without too much problem.

 

[Lady Cougrrr]

Jsoong, oh hurray! I think I am actually using much less softened water to hard water than a 1:1 ratio. When refilling my betta's bowl, I estimate that I am using around 75% hard water to 25% soft water just to warm it up. I'll measure next time just to be accurate, but I'm fairly confident that the softened water being added is minimal. Our water is considered slightly to moderately hard at 10 grains hardness.

Missileman, when I first learned that my pH was 7.5 I panicked, because there is so much misinformation about fish needing lower pH levels. Thank goodness for this site where I learned that steady water parameters are more important than trying to force your water to be something that it is not!

Thanks, everyone, so much for your advice! Looks like one way or another there is a python in my future!

 

[cbwmn]

Lady C
I am also concerned about using a Python for PWC's.
A bunch of members DO use them.
I posted a reply here:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/thats-why-you-rinse-filters-in-old-tank-water-111841.html
I am of the opinion that a lot depends on the type of fish involved.
I have some DD black angels that are very sensitive to water conditions.
If a person had discus I think there would be issues also.

One other question I have is what about chlorine/chloramines?
If a Python is used and a dechlorinator is used to treat the whole tank.
Can a person be sure that all of the chlorine/chloramines are neutralized?
I personally would not take a chance.

As for temperature, a lot of members on this and other boards state that using water that is cooler simulates a sudden rain storm in the wild.
AND the change in temperature actually encourages breeding.
I can't buy that either. It would take a LOT of rain or snow to change
the temp in a lake. My largest tank is 46 g and a PWC usually changes 50-60% of the water. Adding 23 gallons of water at a different temp could cause a significant change in temp. of the total water volume.
I want my aged water to be the exact same temperature as the tank water.

As far as the “lugging” the water around. My Drs. are always telling me to get more exercise. “Lugging” aged and old tank water is good exercise.

Regards
Charles

 

[missileman]

in response to cbwmn,
I completely dissagree. As do a whole lot of Python users here.
First off the chlorine issue.
Myself as well as many others on these boards have been using the Python long term. Aside from the question of wether the low amounts of chlorine in tap water have any effect at all on any fish to begin with it certainly does on the beneficial bacteria in the tank. IF the conditioners were not removing the chlorine you would think we would have cycle problems, I have never had any such problem.
The question was "how do you know it is getting all the chlorine out" you can get a chlorine test kit I suppose but I will throw the question right back.
How do you know you are getting all the chlorine out of that water in the buckets?
As for rapid temp changes you said "It would take a LOT of rain or snow to change"
These are tropical fish we are dealing with here, have you ever seen a tropical rain storm? I have seen research that show as much as 85% of a tropical lakes volume is from seasonal rains. Rivers are especially hard hit from rain runoff.(which is a mute point as you can easily match temp when adding water via a Python)
I guess the bottom line is there are quite alot of Python users around, that have been using them for many years, I have yet to hear of any issues about problems derived from their use.
The only people it seems that have anything negative to say about them never actually used one themselfs.

 

[cbwmn]

"The question was "how do you know it is getting all the chlorine out" you can get a chlorine test kit I suppose but I will throw the question right back.
How do you know you are getting all the chlorine out of that water in the buckets?"

Missile
I age and store my water in heavy duty one gallon jugs. After
a PWC, I treat EACH JUG with Prime and store it for at least five days.

I do have a wwimming pool thus I can and have checked for Chl in the jugs.

I don't wish to argue with you. To each his own.
As for me, I'll keep on doing what I'm doing. It has worked very well for me.
I know a lot of you use a Python. I truly wish you all good luck with them.
On each forum that I read there is ALWAYS questions about Python usage.
So I know I'm not the only skeptical person in the aquatic world.

Charles

 

[missileman]

I don't wish to argue with you. To each his own.
As for me, I'll keep on doing what I'm doing. It has worked very well for me.
I know a lot of you use a Python. I truly wish you all good luck with them.
On each forum that I read there is ALWAYS questions about Python usage.
So I know I'm not the only skeptical person in the aquatic world.

Charles

Not at all. No arguing.
You presented your views against the Python, it is only fair that I am able to counter those views. It would not be fair to anyone that is considering buying one to not hear both sides.

 

[Lady Cougrrr]

It is good to hear from both sides. I've been weighing the pros and cons carefully and feel that a python will suit my needs the most. Thanks, everyone!