kh and ph problem!!!!!!!!!

[dogsby8]

55 gal, undergravel filter and whisper power filter 3, temp 78 degrees,fake plants, new gravel, decorations all aquarium aproved. fish still alive at this time 9 angels, 6 tetras, 4 clown loaches, 3 corydories,1 upside down ccatfish and 1 male guppy. all fish are small except catfish which is full grown.
when i test the kh with a dip strip it reads 300 ( very high) and the ph reads 8.4 when using ph test drop kit. the tank has been setup for years. i traded in the old fish for all of the ones listed above with the exception of the cat fish. i the tested the water and relized i had a problem!!! removed all decorations ,plants( fake), and rocks . then did water change about 20 gal. nothing changed except now i had ich on two of the fish. raised temp to 82 and used quik cure at half dose. used a ph reducer, no effect. put fish in a bucket and removed all but about 5 gal of water and cleaned all sediment out from under gravel filter ( rock were lime stone) . filled tandk and used proper ph 7.0 put fish back in. ph was at 7.8 for about 12 hours then went back to 8.4 . continued to treat for ick and doing a 15 gal water change until ich was cured but not without fatalities. help what can i do to lower kh and in turn lower ph ????? [/center][/b]

 

[Guest]

My first question is why are you so worried about your pH and kH? You don't have live plants and your fish seemed to be doing well up to the point you started treating your tank like a chemistry set.

You mention you have or had limestone in the tank. Well that's why your pH and kH were high. What are your tap water values? If you have or had limestone in the tank you can dump all the pH reducers you want and all you are going to do is stress your fish. With your high amount of kH your water contains a lot of buffer. You can artificially lower the pH but due to the buffering ability of the kH you will come right back up. And this ping ponging of the pH is hell on fish. It seems to me that you lack some very basic knowledge of water chemistry and are harming your fish because of it.

It's always easy to make the water harder and the pH higher but it's very hard to make the water softer and the pH lower and keep it there with chemical means.

 

[shawmutt]

I answered in your last post, here it is again

Use R/O water or distilled water in your water changes. If you have a 55 gallon or more it's borderline as far as buying water and carrying it home, if you have the funds you may want to invest in a R/O filter. I have a 30 gallon tank, and I used to buy 6-8 gallons of distilled water a week. For today's water change, I went to walmart and bought their R/O water for 33 cents a gallon. I bought two 5 gallon jugs from there too, a bit pricey but the cost will work out in the long run. I bought some R/O Right from the petstore and used that to adjust my water to the perfect parameters. It worked out rather well.

But...

Word of caution: adjusting water parameters can be risky, esp. with delicate species such as discus and cardinals. My entire cardinal population is being decimated by ich right now, and I have a feeling part of it is stress caused by unstable pH levels.

 

[dogsby8]

I'm worried about the kh and ph because I' ve lost another angel and all the others are very stressed. It was my understanding that angels will not live a long life if you don't provide the correct enviroment. I have removed the limestone rocks and did a major water change. it is not my intention to treat my tank like a chemistry experiment. I fully understand that the kh is what is causing my ph to stay high and buffering all my attempts to lower the ph. That is why I posted my problem. I will now try ro water in my water change today.. thank you for your advice.

 

[Guest]

Wild Angelfish require low pH and soft water. Commercially bred Angelfish are very hardy and can adapt to a wide range of conditions. You might not be able to get them to breed but they should do fine. What are your tap water parameters? Draw the water and let it sit overnight and then test the pH, kH, and gH and get back to us.

 

[dogsby8]

Sorry it took so long to respond. tap water parameters are nitrate 0, nitrite 0, GH 75 ( soft), KH 300+ (high), PH 8.4 (alkaline). these parameters are the same as the tank. I've done nothing to the tank since my last post. All but one of the angels have died. I do believe this was from my efforts to reduce the PH after they were showing signs of being stressed and I tested the water. After a lot of research I've decided to purchase a water filter to deionize the tap water I have. and slowly try to reduce the KH and PH. All other fish in the tank are doing very well. Any suggestions on how much of the deionized water i should use in my next water change. I don't want to do to much all at once. I plan on getting more angels as soon as I can lower the parameters of the tank.The angel that survived has very red gills and has been this way since I bought it. Do you think this is why it might have survived? Any advice would be a help.

 

[demurefemme]

i don't know anything about why that angel survived, but i can tell you what worked for me when i was having pH issues...

i used bogwood to help act as a natural buffer in my water. i had the same problems you did (tap was 8.2, and wouldn't get below about 7.0 even using proper pH 6.5), and with bogwood and proper pH 6.5, i've been at 6.5 ever since.

just make sure you make the ph change slowly so the fish have time to adjust....

good luck!