"Kissing Angelfish" a sign of mating or aggression

[FallenAngel]

Hello,

I am having some problems with two of my angelfish "lip locking" and chasing each other around the tank. I cannot determine if they are fighting, or expressing a mating ritual. They are a little smaller than my palm in size, and I have had them both since they where the size of a quarter. The problem only started about a month ago, and I am not sure how to determine if they are dangerous to each other or not. The silver one has a few tiny black spots that only appeared after they started chasing each other around, and due to the fact that none of the other fish have them, I am assuming it is an injury from the other angelfish. I do not have an extra 30 gallon tank I can separate the other angelfish into, but I do have a 13 gallon tall tank (the same height as a 20 gallon but the width of a 10) 1/2 set up I can put one in. I know that is small for an angelfish, but would it be alright since it is tall? I know that's what angelfish prefer is height. I also have a 20 gallon I could potentially set up IF I HAD TO. I really don't have room for it at the moment but I could try to make room. I have also contacting a fish store and they said that I could bring one in for store credit. Which actions would you suggest I take or do you think its cause for worry at all? If they are just mating off, will they eventually stop? They do not do this continually. I frequently see them swimming around the tank together, it only happens every once in a while. I have once came in the room when I heard a lot of noise and seen the two angels going at it at the waterline and causing the noise.

Thanks!

The tank is a 30 gallon with a 70 aquaclear filter.
Stock includes:
2 angelfish
3 kuhli loaches
4 rosy finned tetras
5 cherry barbs
1 clown pleco
5 cories
3 nerite snails

The tank is slightly overstocked but I ran it by aqadvisor and it is okay. All the levels are stable, the only problem I am having is with the angels. I know 5 kuhli loaches is recommended, but two died in a filter accident that I have now resolved. I need one more rosy finned tetra but can not find them anywhere, I bought mine about 3 years ago and the store no longer carries them.

The tank has sand substrate, driftwood of different types, primarily live plants. There are 2 large "hiding" spots that are large enough for the angels.

 

[MissGurnus]

It sounds like mating which can at times look really violent. If you could upload a video itd help us be sure


Sini's my personal bucket lugger..er, I mean husband

 

[FallenAngel]

Got it, next time I see them doing it I'll record and post. I don't know if they are the same gender or not, I know it's hard to tell with angels but that may say something. Here are some pics of them

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[FallenAngel]

I got a video!

 

[Andy Sager]

The first question you need to answer ( to yourself) is "Do I really want a breeding pair of Angelfish?" In a community tank, they are more of a pain than a pleasure as Angelfish are cichlids and act just like them when breeding. There is very little plus to having them breed in a community tank. Most, if not all, the babies will probably be lost and this can lead to frustration between the parents which can cause issues between themselves, or lead them to become much more aggressive with their tank mates to the point where they may start killing them off. I suggest, if you do not want to breed the fish in a separate tank, you either trade 1 of them in and leave the other fish as the sole Angelfish in the tank or trade in the pair, as a pair if they are in fact a breeding pair, and go from there. The following post has 2 videos in post #21 that show the difference between pre spawning fighting and supremacy fighting. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f82/angelfish-mating-ritual-318326-3.html#post3038223

One thing to keep in mind is that Angelfish, despite their name, are no angels to their mates. In some cases, they do a lot of bodily harm to each other. I currently have 3 pairs where one fish has lost an eye due to it's mate. In other cases, I've lost 1 member of the pair due to aggression by the other. But I am also breeding 17 pairs ATM and not all have gotten this bad. It's the chance you take. So, if you do not want to have disfigured or damaged fish, I strongly suggest not breeding them under any situation ( alone or in the community tank.) Again, it's the chance you take when breeding them. That's the harsh reality of Angelfish.

Hope this helps

 

[FallenAngel]

That actually helps a lot. I think they look closer to the mating behavior because they stay close together typically, although one sometimes trys to flee. I honestly never wanted a breeding pair, I was trying to get 2 males but of course at the size I got it was nearly impossible to be sure. I may have to give one up, they get along fine until they start pairing off, so far, neither have gone after my other fish but if theres eggs it may very well get to that point...

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[Andy Sager]

That actually helps a lot. I think they look closer to the mating behavior because they stay close together typically, although one sometimes trys to flee. I honestly never wanted a breeding pair, I was trying to get 2 males but of course at the size I got it was nearly impossible to be sure. I may have to give one up, they get along fine until they start pairing off, so far, neither have gone after my other fish but if theres eggs it may very well get to that point...

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This is actually why I suggested you view those videos as pictures can be misleading. In this case I see male features on both fish and male and female features on the one that appears to be the larger fish. ( This is a typical problem with sexing today's Angelfish unfortunately ) That should make it the male however, which would mean you are watching aggression. But a look at a few seconds of video can not replace constant viewing. You are going to be the best judge of what's going on.

At this point, if your goal is to not have a breeding pair or aggressiveness in your tank, I would trade both fish in for another batch of smalls to raise up. This will eliminate the possibility of one of them getting hurt to the point that you can not trade it in and you can then enjoy raising some new fish again. If you don't want to have to go through this again in the future, you might want to not get more Angels and stick with other fish better suited to community living.

Hope this helps

 

[FallenAngel]

Thank you! I am having a very hard time determining the gender but in guessing I have a pair. I knew the small one was male but I couldn't tell the other. Ill have to seriously think about what I'm going to do then. I really don't want to get rid of them because I would feel like an in responsible fish owner if I didn't actually see that they where going go to get a home and not just be thrown into a tank and die at the fish store but I also don't know if I'll have time to set up the 20 and separate them before they hurt each other. Maybe I'll check Craigslist and such as well...

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