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kagentx

Aquarium Advice Activist
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
197
Location
NY
My tank is a 50 gallon tank currently running at 96 watts, i could add it to 150 watts if i want to.
CO2 levels at 8ppm
pH 6.8
phoshpate 1.5ppm
nitrate 5ppm

this is going to be my final attempt in restoring the health of my tank, and my move is to buy a complete set of plants in place of the ones i have. The plants i have don't seem to grow really well, and are rotting with green spot algae. This plants were transfered once already from another tank, so they are pretty beat up now.

i've come to a conclusion that they aren't plants they do good with each other because some needs more light and than others and some are more sensitive to others. Plants such as the stargrass are rotting, the hygro sunsets are doing fine, but are covered with green spot algae.

These are the following plants i'm planning to get as my final attempt:

Ludwigia Narrow Repens
Ludwigia Needle
Sag Subulata Dwarf
Sword - Radican Marble Queen
Anubias Barteri Round Leaf
Watersprite

are these plants going to be easy to deal with?
thanks alot guys your help is realli an important thing to me

also: would changing a whole roster of plants disturb the balance?
 
try upping your CO2. if you can manage to double it at the least for 10 days, I think you'll start to see some improvements.... of course, right now you're under 2 WPG... 3 WPG would be better. at that point, though, you really need to start thinking about your CO2... for now, try to up your CO2 a bit and see what happens
 
Keep in mind, Radican Swords like about 2.5 to 3 WPG of lighting and require a rich substrate with lotsa nutrients. Your under 2 WPG. Marble Queens are beautiful, but they need proper lighting and nutrient to live. I have one as a center piece that looks great.

As Medge said, try bumping up your CO2 and see if it helps (never used CO2, but 8bpm sounds low for a 50g). Then perhaps add a little more lighting. Personally if I could'nt get the tank to stablize and get the current plants to show new signs of growth. I certainly would'nt spend the money on new plants. Chances are, they would die as well and it be a huge waste of money. Try to salvage what plants you can and use as a learning experience. When you get the tank turned around, then spend the money on new plants (unless of course, they are rotted).

Whats your ammonia level? How many fish in the tank? How often you doing gravel vacs/water changes? Whats you fertilization and how often?If your losing a lot of leaves you want to remove them by hand or with a gravel vac to keep them from decaying.

Hope this helps......good luck.
 
you think if i did a DIY CO2 injection of two 3L bottles be good? with a airstone attached?
 
Keep in mind, Radican Swords like about 2.5 to 3 WPG of lighting and require a rich substrate with lotsa nutrients. Your under 2 WPG. Marble Queens are beautiful, but they need proper lighting and nutrient to live. I have one as a center piece that looks great.

As Medge said, try bumping up your CO2 and see if it helps (never used CO2, but 8bpm sounds low for a 50g). Then perhaps add a little more lighting. Personally if I could'nt get the tank to stablize and get the current plants to show new signs of growth. I certainly would'nt spend the money on new plants. Chances are, they would die as well and it be a huge waste of money. Try to salvage what plants you can and use as a learning experience. When you get the tank turned around, then spend the money on new plants (unless of course, they are rotted).

Whats your ammonia level? How many fish in the tank? How often you doing gravel vacs/water changes? Whats you fertilization and how often?If your losing a lot of leaves you want to remove them by hand or with a gravel vac to keep them from decaying.

Hope this helps......good luck.
 
For a 50 gallon I know I've read many places that it is recommended that one use a pressurized system. It may be difficult to get your CO2 up to the recommended 15-20 ppm. But DIY is cheap. its worth a try! :)

Some one jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but I would try 3 2L bottles instead of 2 3L bottles... maybe even just start with 2 bottles. the 3L bottles maybe take longer to build up the pressure it takes to start shoving CO2 into the tank. I could be entirely wrong about this.

You've done DIY before right? You know how to set it up and whatnot? Oh, do a search on the site and on google for a DIY reactor. As I understand it, its much more efficient in getting the CO2 into the water than an airstone. HTH.
 
I am running DIY CO2 in my 55 (I think you need more CO2, closer to 20-25ppm) but the lighting is going to be the crux of the matter. Do not increase your lighting, however, without increasing CO2.

I have 2 juice bottles (they are sturdier and less liable to tip than the soda bottles, and their lids seem thicker) and run the tube into a power diffuser run by a powerhead, but lacking that you should skip the air stone and use the plastic wire ties to attach your airline tubing to your filter intake, running it a few inches up into the tube. That will do a much better job of diffusing the CO2 into the water than an air stone will. I alternate changing out the yeast solution every other week with each bottle, so I am never completely out.

Up your lighting to keep the plants you have, as I think this has a lot to do with your current woes. Also, swords are heavy root feeders and need iron, so root tabs are a good idea. Have your CO2 in place before you upgrade your lights, so the algae will not have a chance to take hold even more with the increased light. Read Rex Grigg's FAQ and that will explain a lot of the rationale behind the above suggestions.

Also, what is your KH? That will determine how stable your pH will be once you up your CO2, since your pH is already on the acid side (at least in my neck of the woods... :wink: )

Good luck, and do not give up. This is a challenge. You are up to it, and we can help!
 
thanks for all the suggestions. The leafs from my hygro and stargrass falls of alot, my radican sword grows small leaves instead of the usual big ones. They are covered with green spot algae! i'm thinking of getting some media to absorb some phoshpate. I change 5 gallons of water every 2 days and everytime i do that the plants seem to respond to it. My 3 L bottle makes little mist of bubbles non stop! tat seems good right? i also have 2 hagen CO2, so i thought maybe that would be enough. the ammonia don't seem to be the problem because there's no foul smell to the water and the fish are not ill. medge, your comment for 3 2L bottles would be great, but its too much of a hassle... i just thought maybe getting lower light plants would be better than the set i have now

maybe i should just get the CO2 to be absorbed in the intake tube? i have the 2 hagen CO2 at a corner, maybe i should disperse them... i use tropical master growth and adding 2.5ml every 2 days. I don't want to add daily because i don't want to encourage more algae.

I have one more question, my hygros are growing rapidly, should i cut the top and throw away the bottom? or cut top and leave bottom?
 
I didn't realize you had so many sources of CO2 on your tank.... run your 3L into the uptake of your filter... measure your CO2 then measure it after you've rerun the CO2 24 hrs. later and again at 48 hrs. later. See how much it changes. If this works, you may want to try running all 3 CO2 sources there. Again, do a search for a DIY reactor. I think these are more effective than air stones and the ladder... worth a try! I wouldn't add the tropica master grow daily either.

I'm not quite sure about the hygros.... i got rid of mine for cooler plants. :)
 
sure thing, i'll put those CO2 around the uptake tube.... I just did a test for CO2 and i have a 14 ppm reading =O... but my kH is 1 and the test kit for pH measured at around 6! =O the reading was yellow... i can't believe all these low readings, what should i do? continue the water changes? I just did a jungle cut today and cleared out the jungle, the plants are still pearling from the water change i did earlier today, while the green spot algae still remains.

reactor seems too complicated... btw what do leaves falling off indicate?
 
so, is your CO2 reading at 14 before you hooked up the intake of your filter? finish your water change today, then take CO2 readings over a 30 hr. period... one after a water change, one at night before lights go out, one 1st thing in the mornign, one in the middle of your light cycle etc. This way, you figure out how much the ph and CO2 is swinging. Low kH can make your pH swing with CO2. One way to combat this is baking soda... this will raise your pH and kH slightly, then the CO2 will bring it back down again, but with a higher kH, your water will be more stable.... what is your taps pH and kH before CO2? and after its sat in a bucket for 24 hrs? Its great that you got your CO2 up to 14, if you can keep it there, your algae may decrease (and of course your plants will adore you). Is all this making sense? I feel like its a little convaluded...

Ok... I'll make a list, so we don't get confused
1. do pH and kH tests on your tank for a 30 or 36 hr period (we're checking for swings here)
2. test your tap pH and kH straight from the tap, and more importantly, after its sat in a bucket for about 24 hrs.
3. How many CO2 sources do you currently have and where are they set up? (did you move one to the uptake of your filter?)
4. Forget about the baking soda until we figure out what your water is doing now... we can adjust later
5. when did you plant the plants that have leaves falling off? its normal for this to happen when you 1st plant them... after they get over the stress, they should begin to put out new growth
6. Lay out your fertilizing routine for us one more time...

that's it for now! I hope this is helping! you'll get to the bottom of this, no worries! you're not even near give up time!
 
gee, thanks alot for this experiment, i think i really need it.
alrite i'm going to do the kH and pH test for the 36 hr period, on the tap after after sitting for 24 hours, b4 water change and after water change. Then i'm going to test CO2 before the lights are on and b4 the lights are off. Right now i have the 3L CO2 with the airstone right under the uptake tube along with one of the hagen systems. I have the other hagen system right under the intake tube so it sucks up the bubbles when it climbs up the ladder. I use Tropic master Growth at a rate of 2.5ml every two days. The plants are pearling alot as i'm typing right now, is that a good sign or just a normal sign saying they are alive? also, i put an extra 55watts in the tank now. would this affect the CO2 level? or should i take those lights out?
 
LOL no problem. I'm feeling a bit like a task master right now. i really feel that upping your co2 from 8 to 15 or so will help. the extra light won't effect your co2, but if might effect your algae... you have two options.... up the co2 for about 2 weeks before you add the light (that's about how long it takes to really start seeing noticeable results) or put the light on now and battle algae as it comes (if it comes). I think Tankgirl recommended you wait..... since the light is already on, you could leave it, just expect some algae. But its up to you. In the long run, I would definitely put that extra light on. It will give you a wider range of plants to work with, and it sounds like your plants need it. Once you bump your CO2 up, you'll need to start thinking about other fert. sources (Rex's faq is all over that one), but for now, lets see how our experiment goes. Pearling plants is usually an excellent sign that they're happy. its possible your plants are doing as well because they're slightly under nourished.... i'd tackle the algae first, then the plants. don't stop the master grow (btw, are you dosing at recommended levels?) With all that CO2, you're plants will need it. hopefully some one else will jump in here too... more opinions are better than one!
 
lol i definitely need a task master around here considering that i'm the only person i noe that keeps planted aquariums other than LFS. The only algae that i have in there are green spot algae, those can be elimiated by decreasing the time of my light. Now that i cut down the jungle, some of the other plants seem to be getting more light than before. My tap water is at kH 2 degrees and with a pH of 7. My ruffle amazon sword flowered =O. I was suprised because i thought my tank was the worse. After i'm finished using the hagen system packets, i'm going to planning to use my own recipe to save some money, then just hook them all near the intake tube for it to absorb into the canister filter. Do you think i should still go for that Phosguard to absorb phosphate? about the fertilzer... i'm not sure if i'm adding the right amount tho... 2.5ml every two days for a 50 gallon?

btw what are kudos? lol i've been giving you guys kudos not knowing what it is, i'm guessing its some propz for helping me out
 
it is said that i add 5ml for a 50 liter tank per week, so that is about 20ml per week for my 200 liter (50gallon) tank. Then divide 20 by 7 equals about 2.8, so adding 2.5ml is ok for me. They also mentioned that soft water requires half the dosage of hard water. I have soft water?
 
yes, you have soft water... i'd lower to closer to 2 to see if that helps. I don't know about the phosphate remover.... it will help, but eventually, your plants need .5-1 ppm... maybe run it for a week to get rid of excess, then ditch it? I'm not sure. Water changes will help for sure. Have you tested your tap for phosphates? It might also be a good idea to see if thats where the excess is coming from. if plants are blooming and you've got a jungle, something is going right... very right. sugar yeast and baking soda is also way cheaper than the hagen packets. I think Rex uses wine yeast, but pm corvuscorax for a recipe... i think that's where I got mine... or pm me and i'll send it to ya. :)
 
You might check your setting pH, meaning check the tap's pH after a 18 to 24 hour period to make sure you are at 7pH and 2 kH. If you are, what sweet water you have to grow plants in. What a blessing. To raise your kH and GH, throw an oyster shell or some crushed coral in your filter if you have room or whereever there is a running current. And pressurised CO2 will save you alot of head aches. Mixing all that sugar is a drag for that big of a tank. Try to get the phosphates down to .5 to 1ppm.

Like Medge suggested, check the water parameters all the way on your tap so you know what you're really dealing with. And of course go with appropriate plants to your light levels and CO2.

CC's CO2 recipes

"I've also found the homemade ingredients work better. still 1 cup sugar, 1 teaspoon baking soda, 1/2 teaspoon bread yeast (perhaps a little bit more). I think it's more yeast that makes it bubble better, but I'm not positive. You probably know this, but that's all that is in the Hagen packets, yeast in one, baking soda in the other. On 2 liter soda bottles, I use 6 cups water, 2 cups sugar, 1 teaspoon each of baking soda and yeast. They last almost 4 weeks."
 
after i did the cuttings, my water started to cloud up a bit, it wasn't all that clear to begin with, hopefully it'd clear up. I'm planning to now dose 1.5 ml of TMG everyday. btw isn't my pH a little too low, since it reads yellow? i'm using a 3 L bottle and it works great! i use 3.5 cups of sugar and a tsp of baking soda and yeast. I lost track of how long it has been but i'm going to make sure to note that the next time. The day i know i'm successful is the day my stargrass stops rotting! and leaves falling off!

btw i have this question: if i was to get plants that combat algae such as hornwort... after awhile won't they be combating my other plants as well because they are sucking up the nutrients faster than the others?
 
Are you using the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals liquid pH test, or the paper strips. I'd get the liquid if you don't as its easier to interpret and is accurate. You have to know your pH, kh, gh, phosphates and nitrates to get a handle on what's really going on. You can tell a little by looking, but the tests will tell you the numbers to achieve that important balance of macro and micro elements and the water's parameters and such. Even with that information it still seems a little like guess work to me at this point.

Re: Hornwort... Usually enough fish will give you plenty of nitrates and that can be adjusted with water changes. You need potassium too, and iron and trace elements.. I hope you don't have green water starting. Is the clouding water green in tint? If so, thats a whole other topic. Beware of over ferts. Better under than over. If pH is too low, slowly bring it up with baking soda. And the crushed coral or oyster works well in a cannister filter if you have really soft water (for pH and kH/GH). About a quarter to a half cup for a 50 gallon tank depending on your water and amount of CO2. Pearling is a good sign for sure. Sounds like you have very soft water. Have you read Rex's sticky at the top. Its been a great help for me.
 
a pH of 6 could be low, it depends on your fish and plants really.... once you figure out what your water is naturally and over a period of time in your tank, we can figure out raising it a bit. Right now, your CO2 is dropping it a lot. In a few days you can try crushed coral or baking soda like bewotess suggested.... first we need those water stats. a day without it shouldn't be too detrimental
 
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