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Old 02-28-2015, 10:27 PM   #1
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Laws

Is there any law or regulations in this country that specifies that pet stores have to keep their fish tanks properly stocked and clean? Today my girlfriend her brother and I made our weekly trip to Petland so we could look at fish because he likes all the colorful fish and we had to get some more API Stress Coat+ and Acuarl F water clarifier and we noticed very large Orange cap orandas in 10 gallon tanks, other large goldfish in large numbers in tanks so small the resorted in attacking snails in their territory, koi in 10 gallon tanks, oscars mixed with jack Dempsey and black convicts and texas cichlids in a 10 or 15 gallon, and if that isn't bad some of their gold fish and other fish were dead and stuck to filters and i'm pretty sure i saw a dead striped raphael in a tank with cichlids and it was nothing but a head and back bone. Is there any law to make them take better care of their fish?
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Old 02-28-2015, 10:37 PM   #2
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Many petitions have been made but nothing really seems to be done about it.


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Old 02-28-2015, 10:42 PM   #3
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Many petitions have been made but nothing really seems to be done about it.

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They have protective laws for every pet from dogs to even reptiles to even wild bugs that only destroy our trees but when it comes to fish it seems like the government turns their heads and act like fish don't feel pain or have feelings but stupid bugs get all the laws they want. This government needs to get their sh*t together and stop being so impartial to these little guys because their lives matter too.
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Old 02-28-2015, 10:46 PM   #4
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Is there any law or regulations in this country that specifies that pet stores have to keep their fish tanks properly stocked and clean? Today my girlfriend her brother and I made our weekly trip to Petland so we could look at fish because he likes all the colorful fish and we had to get some more API Stress Coat+ and Acuarl F water clarifier and we noticed very large Orange cap orandas in 10 gallon tanks, other large goldfish in large numbers in tanks so small the resorted in attacking snails in their territory, koi in 10 gallon tanks, oscars mixed with jack Dempsey and black convicts and texas cichlids in a 10 or 15 gallon, and if that isn't bad some of their gold fish and other fish were dead and stuck to filters and i'm pretty sure i saw a dead striped raphael in a tank with cichlids and it was nothing but a head and back bone. Is there any law to make them take better care of their fish?
You have to realize that pet shops stock tanks for short term usage opposed to what you should stock in a home aquarium, which is for long term. They also do more maintainence on their tanks than a home aquarist typically does. Yes, there is some common sense at play and they shouldn't put a 12" fish in a 20" tank but as for laws, I don't believe they are that strict. The store does need a licence to hold and sell pets ( at least in FL they do) and are visited by game officials to monitor what fish are being sold and I'm sure would site the store for inhumane practices if they spotted them.
Unfortunately, when dealing with volume, fish do die in display tanks and they do get eaten by the other fish in the tank. It's the nature of the beast. That does not mean the store is not caring properly for their fish. If the fish you mentioned in your example were all too large to mix, they would have killed each other off which is not in the store's best interest. Lack of stock means lack of sales. If those fish you saw were alive and swimming, they were all small enough to be housed together. Again, it is not for long term housing.
Hope this better explains.
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Old 02-28-2015, 10:58 PM   #5
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They have protective laws for every pet from dogs to even reptiles to even wild bugs that only destroy our trees but when it comes to fish it seems like the government turns their heads and act like fish don't feel pain or have feelings but stupid bugs get all the laws they want. This government needs to get their sh*t together and stop being so impartial to these little guys because their lives matter too.

I did lots of research on laws protecting fish, because my little brother's class is keeping mosquito fish in old soda bottles, with 6-7 fish in each one. And there was absolutely nothing at all! For all the government cares, you can put fish in a toothpaste tube and that's fine with them. Also, there are more laws protecting a car than a pet dog!
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Old 02-28-2015, 11:08 PM   #6
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I did lots of research on laws protecting fish, because my little brother's class is keeping mosquito fish in old soda bottles, with 6-7 fish in each one. And there was absolutely nothing at all! For all the government cares, you can put fish in a toothpaste tube and that's fine with them. Also, there are more laws protecting a car than a pet dog!

Well, some strides have been made. In many states, it is a felony to abuse a dog or other four-legged animal. In those same states, it is only a misdemeanor to beat or abuse a spouse or significant other. So, in some cases, animals are better protected by the law than people. Humans aren't perfect, but as a whole, we're not bad. Fish do seem to get the raw end of the deal more often than not, but all things come in time.


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Old 02-28-2015, 11:12 PM   #7
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Well, some strides have been made. In many states, it is a felony to abuse a dog or other four-legged animal. In those same states, it is only a misdemeanor to beat or abuse a spouse or significant other. So, in some cases, animals are better protected by the law than people. Humans aren't perfect, but as a whole, we're not bad. Fish do seem to get the raw end of the deal more often than not, but all things come in time.


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You also have to consider that it is much easier to kill a fish than a dog. I fish can die for many many reasons. Dogs don't have to worry about ammonia, lack of oxygen, temperature(in most cases), the list goes on..


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Old 03-01-2015, 01:38 AM   #8
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There's also the aspect of how much it really helps to have laws. With so many species of fish how would you write up what's ok and not ok for each one? Who would enforce it? How would you avoid inadvertently harming people who keep healthy tanks outside the usual methods? Does it do fish or people any good to have police and courts tied up on this?

A better strategy it think would be consumer education, such that people think it's cruel or irresponsible to sell 16oz betta tanks and to forget to tell people that 3" catfish will get big enough to need more food and space than a teenage football player.

Keeping fish is also different because it's an entire artificial environment. Stuff happens under the best of intentions.

There are also few universal agreements on what's ok or not ok in terms of stocking and cohabitation and so on.


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Old 03-01-2015, 07:39 AM   #9
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Truly if there is ever going to be a law regarding personal fish in home aquariums it will be at corporate level. A law to keep display tanks at LFS looking clean and healthy. Sometimes fish get diseases you can't help it especially is small display tanks in stores. BUT it is not hard to go around and gravel vacuum each tank before the shift is over. Petsmart has a giant sump which can change the water. The biggest problem I have seen is dirty dirty nasty gravel. It would take 10 mins for each tank or less. You have employees, have them vacuum the tanks! Overfeeding is another problem. I've seen tanks with enough food floating to feed 100 fish. Poor water conditions are the reason they have fish die. If you really want to get into corporate and do something, show them how keeping the tanks clean reduces deaths therefore they lose less money and might do something about it.


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Old 03-01-2015, 07:43 AM   #10
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It is impossible to regulate the home aquarium because there is so many variables compared to "oh they have 2 dogs and 1 cat" instead you are looking at, "oh they have 2 anemones 3 purple tangs 2 needlenose gar's 20 neon tetras and 5 ADF in some tanks I forgot the size."

It's just not practical for the government to try and regulate the home aquarium. The only time I can see them stepping on is if you are releasing species into the wild or housing endangered species.


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Old 03-01-2015, 08:05 AM   #11
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Laws

You could talk to corporate in that area and say "In my Local area store #649 I will do a sample study of how when tanks are properly cleaned it reduces fish deaths and disease therefore less money being lost. It also pleases the consumer to see a nice clean tank."

You gotta think about the money when dealing with corporate because they likely don't care about the lives of fish.

In the next few months with tanks being clean and presentable we had this many LESS deaths of fish and invertebrates. Sales also rose by said %.


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Old 03-01-2015, 09:28 AM   #12
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I did lots of research on laws protecting fish, because my little brother's class is keeping mosquito fish in old soda bottles, with 6-7 fish in each one. And there was absolutely nothing at all! For all the government cares, you can put fish in a toothpaste tube and that's fine with them. Also, there are more laws protecting a car than a pet dog!
Honestly, SpaceFish I couldn't agree with you more because it's sad that our government only cares about the money that is lining their pockets and really only protect things that aren't living and things that don't really matter to us. They really only care about the animals that they think people like more than the others.
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Old 03-01-2015, 12:21 PM   #13
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For what it's worth, there ARE laws on what can be imported and what can't be into the U.S. On top of this, there are state regulations of what can be kept in a particular state and what can't. The problem becomes us, the hobbyists. The greatest example of this is the Piranha. They are illegal to possess in FL yet they are legal in other states. I have had customers tell me they went to another state to get them and just drove them back home to FL. So all the laws preventing them from being in the state are circumvented. How can law enforcement deal with this when they are trying to deal with things like interstate criminals and murderers crossing state lines? Is someone getting bitten by a released Piranha more important than a human trafficer being caught? The only way to ensure things like this stop is to ban all fish as pets and THAT would also cause an uproar. It's a vicious circle.
As for sick fish in a small tank, the tank size is not always the reason the fish are sick. Sometimes they come in sick from the distributor so it wouldn't matter if they were in a huge tank, they still would be sick.
You guys and gals are looking at this from only one side whereas I have been on the other side to KNOW what happens. It takes more than 10 minutes to clean a tank in a store and not all stores can do maintainence during business hours so if they need to pay employees to work longer than regular store hours to maintain the tanks, that raises prices to pay for the extra time. This causes us hobbyists to complain and look for cheaper ways of getting our supplies which leads us to the internet which causes stores to lose sales and thereby close due to lack of funds. Isn't that where we are today? So do we really need the stores to have more regulations? I believe a better option is to be your own "law enforcement" officer and when you see a problem in a tank, just bring it to the store manager's attention. It doesn't have to be hostile. Just ask a salesclerk if you can speak to a manager and politely tell them " I see a number of problems with your tanks that need some attention. That is the reason why I, and I'm sure others, am not buying your products. Let me show you what I am talking about." This way, the store has an opportunity to clean up their act and possibly get you back as a customer in the future. If they don't, you have the option of not returning and telling others of your experience. Nothing hurts a store more than lack of sales. Nothing helps a store better than knowing why they are having a lack of sales. Trust me!
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