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Old 10-28-2003, 08:40 AM   #1
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LFS gave me advice i'm not too happy with!! Please advise...

Hey,

I've got a serious situation on my hands....well first of all I figured I may have bacterial infection in my tank....all the signs point to it: fish suddenly becoming lathargic, not swimming, floating, breathing heavy, and white/grayish stuff building up around their heads...

sooo...yesterday I went to my lfs with a big list of anti-bacterial and anti-fungal medications I compiled from this board...I wanted to see what they think I should get based on the sysmptons I described above...I figured I need to act FAST to get this under control.

well the girl said all i need to do is do a 10% water change for the next 5 days and that shoudl be OK....but, if at that point the fish are still dieing then I can use the medication.....

and then today... I wake up and 3 more of my fish have the symptoms.....i'm willing to bet they will be dead really soon if i don't do something

WHAT SHOULD I DO??? continue with the water changes?? was she correct at all??

any advice will do, since I do not know much about diseases/treatments

Zach.

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Old 10-28-2003, 08:47 AM   #2
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I'm not an expert by any means, but everybody who comes on this board will ask for tank parameters - ammonia/nitrate/nitrate/temperature/pH. This will help them diagnose your probs.

I understand that water changes, especially small ones like you mentioned, are never a bad thing.

As for meds, I have no idea! Sorry. I'm sure someone will be on sooner or later to help out with that. In the meantime, testing your water and posting your parameters will be helpful.

Good luck!
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Old 10-28-2003, 08:49 AM   #3
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She is half correct. do the water change to insure good quality but you should treat this with a broad spectrum antibiotic. It is getting worse and sounds pretty much in control of your tank. Use same salt as well as long as your fish don't mind.
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Old 10-28-2003, 08:53 AM   #4
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I'll be the first (unless someone beats me to this post) to ask the all important question--what are your water parameters? Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate levels?

If you have ANY ammonia or nitrite in your tank, the LFS was on the right track, although I would suggest 20% per day. 10% is hardly enough to make a difference.

Using an antibiotic can destroy your bio-filter so it shouldn't be entered into lightly. If your tank isn't fully cycled, it will prolong the process (you'd basically be starting over) and your fish may not be able to survive another cycle.

Good luck...
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Old 10-28-2003, 08:54 AM   #5
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Dang, I'm slow. TWO people beat me to it... oh well.

We're all on the same page, here.
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Old 10-28-2003, 08:54 AM   #6
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Patwa has posted on this same outbreak before and said his params were ok.
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Old 10-28-2003, 08:57 AM   #7
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http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=10734

Heres his pleco post
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Old 10-28-2003, 08:57 AM   #8
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Yeah, go ahead with the antibacterials as soon as possible. I think your LFS employee is pretty much like most of us on these boards. She'd prefer that you try to kill the bacteria/fungus naturally by water change or temperature increase first. BUT it sounds like you really need to take more decisive action. Your fishes' lives are a risk, so get the meds. If you catch this earlier next time, you can try the water changes to get rid of the bacteria/fungus.

Good luck, and keep us posted on progress.
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Old 10-28-2003, 09:13 AM   #9
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Hey all,

thank you soo much for the quick reponses! I really do appreciate it!

anyways...yah I posted my tank params before...ph is around 7.7 or so....0ppm on the rest....

seriously..my tank was perfect for soo long....everything was stable but with the death of that Royal PLeco, everythign went downhill soooo fast. I'm at work now, but i'll pick up some antibacterial stuff on the way home..

as for the medication....well I think I have 'Columnaris'... I've noticed white crud on the face, fin rot, and cloudy eye....and a general 'laziness' in my fish

which ones are the best bet???

-Jungle's Fungus Eliminator ( i think it's the same company that makes the ick clear stuff i use)
-Maracyn or Maracyn2 atm (some websites say BOTH medications in concert with each other work best)
-Tetracycline (websites says this sucks compared to Maracyn)
-Kanacyn (no info on this one)

however, is it OK to ensure that whatever medication I get is phenoxyethanol-based???...cuz i'm reading that stuff is good for lots of ailments.

thanks again,

Zach.
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Old 10-28-2003, 12:19 PM   #10
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maracyn, maracyn2, tetracycline and kanacyn are all antibiotics. Maracyn and Maracyn2 have some additional ingrediants in there I believe (one of which might be phenoxyethanol). Certain antibiotics are more useful against certain bacteria...it isn't that tetracycline doesn't work...but it won't always work against all bacteria...which is true for maracyn as well (which i believe is erythomyacin based).

Just FYI...an antibiotic can't directly harm your fish, but stuff like the phenoxyethanol, malachite green, copper...all are poisonous to fish. The idea in using them against illness is that at low doses, its more likely to kill off whatever is making your fish sick, before it kills your fish.

I would go with an antibiotic, either maracyn or maracyn2 (it should give you a general idea on their packaging what type of infections they are best at treating).
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Old 10-28-2003, 04:28 PM   #11
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I have been battling a similiar disease for the past 2 weeks! Fin rot, cloudy eyes and fungus around the mouth which all happened all of sudden. My tank went from being what I thought was perfect (had not had a disease breakout for almost a year) to disaster over night. I lost a few Cardinals in the process and I can tell you what meds worked for me and which didn't.

I first started using Melafix for a few days and conditions were not improving, rather the conditions seemed to be deteriorating. I am 1 for 2 now using Melafix. Worked once, and failed once.

Did a water change and I then tried using Marycyn-2 in conjuction with Maracide (the new Maracide w/biospheres) because it seemed like I had a small case of ich as well. This combination did nothing and seemed to kill my beneficial bacteria. Water got cloudy, etc...

After the recommended dosage of Mardel products, conditions still were not improving. 0 for 1 with the new maracide and marycyn-2. (The older maracide seemed to work well for curing ich)

Then I did another water change and started using Aquarium Pharm. Triple Sulfa. Within a day or two, I immediately started to notice that the fungus was clearing up. I stuck with the recommended dosage and things are looking good thus far. I think this med will have worked to be 2 for 2.

I guess it all depends on the situation, but since I have had so much luck with triple sulfa, I would recommend trying that first.

good luck
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Old 10-28-2003, 04:38 PM   #12
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I have used Kanacyn before, in a critter keeper, with one betta. The betta had some fin rot, and also some white patches on the fins. I also used it in a 5.5 gallon tank. The Kanacyn will disrupt your biological filter (kill some of the good bacteria, as others have said). My ammonia level rose to .25 in my tank.

But if your fish are very sick, you have no choice, I think. Kanacyn worked very well for me. I used a carbon filter to remove the medicine after the 5 days of treatment (don't run one normally though) and just did some frequent water changes because my ammonia had risen a little, but the tank didn't go thru the cycle all over again. Just keep an eye on your ammonia level if you treat in the main tank. Hope this helps!
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Old 10-28-2003, 10:10 PM   #13
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thanks for the info...

I actually bought Mardel's Maracyn medication.....before I saw the last two posts! hehe...if this stuff fails then i'll try the triple sulfa.

Anyways I have some questions :

1. The packaging says to 'maintain normal filtration' does that mean I can leave in my carbon filter??? I thought the carbon filters out such things as medication...making it much less effective....isn't this true???

2. also the packaging say the tablets will 'dissolve rapidly and curculate through the water' i dunno about that....it's already been about 4 hours since i droped them in and the tablets are still in a white lump.....they sort of dissolved a small bit....how is this right?? should I mix it up somehow??

3. It says to repeat the dosage for 5 days continuously, without doing any water changes (unless my readings are off)... what's up with that? I thought water changes are part and parcel to a treatment like this irrescpective of readings.

thanks,

Zach.
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Old 10-28-2003, 10:50 PM   #14
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Take your carbon out. Leave your filter running, though. In order to really get the full benefit of the medicine, you won't want to dilute it by changing water...unless your water params get way out of whack. Next dose you could try dissolving the tablet in a paper cup of tank water...but it's probably fine to just drop 'em in.

I've never actually had to medicate a tank (knockin on all the wood i can find), so someone who has used this product might have better advice...good luck though!
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Old 10-28-2003, 11:14 PM   #15
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I agree with Sweets that water changes would dilute the medicine. Most medicines will explicitely state to take out carbon, though, so it's prob not necessary. If you want to be safe, do it...
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Old 10-29-2003, 08:33 AM   #16
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I usually do a big water change before I dose. I have only used ick meds in the past and furan2 once and eurytho tabs once. So I have no real experience. I did remove the carbon and dissolved the meds first since the fish nipped at the tablets.
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Old 10-30-2003, 04:43 AM   #17
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I am quite new to the hobby but I have heard that you may need to remove any carbon filters from the tank other wise this may remove any medication or water treatment that you introduce.

Obviously I would advise to checkm with someone with a bit more experience first.

good luck
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Old 10-30-2003, 12:13 PM   #18
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alrighty then.... going into my 3rd day now of treatments and everything is going fine....no deaths at all......and the tank looks pretty good.

if this works, i'm picking up a 2-4 of PREMIUM beer.....yah i gots to 'treat' myself too! hahah

Zach.
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