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Old 04-12-2005, 11:40 AM   #21
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Here's a quick question wrt to SAEs... The LFS around here have been selling two different versions of Flying Foxes... There is the standard Flying Fox... and then one LFS called teh other one "True Flying Foxes" while the other one called them "Siamese Flying Foxes"... I have heard the term flying fox used wrt to SAEs previously, and am wondering if the "true" flying fox would be the SAE whereas the flying fox would be the false flying fox... I was talking out SAEs to one guy and he kept going Chinese Algae Eater, and I was like... uh.. I said Siamese... but no matter, thought I'd come to the experts!

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Old 04-12-2005, 12:05 PM   #22
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Whitecloud, I feel your pain. If there's one downside to our hobby is losing inhabitants. Now this is 20/20 hindsight and not meant as criticsm, but I've always gone by the "slowly" stock up rule for a freswater community. I think the rule is different for aggressive ciclid tanks. I can't imagine I'd buy 24 SAEs at one time.... even if I had a 75 gal, I'd go with 6 at one time and observe them... again, I know it's 20/20 hindsight.

And yes, a QT makes such a huge difference.

Forgive me if I missed this... but did you get any money back from AZgardens, or what is their policy in this case?
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Old 04-12-2005, 01:15 PM   #23
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SAE info

I'd check out the info in these places:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/saes.htm

http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/

http://www.petresources.net/fish/article/sae.html

http://www.azgardens.com/algae_eating_fish.php

Then you can decide if what they're talking about is a true SAE. There are several differences it seems.


As for Whitecloud, he'd said he got a store credit, but I don't believe it was close to his total loss. I believe they gave him credit for the DOAs, but not the ones that died after arrival. A real shame. I've been throwing fish into the tank lately since things have been going well, but hearing his story really warrants a QT.
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Old 04-12-2005, 07:20 PM   #24
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true SAE

I can barely tell a true SAE from the flying fox. I do know that the ones I ordered are "different acting", and look a little different that the flying fox I've owned. I can only see two barbels at the mouth.

As for my order, I'm going to continue ordering, but I'm gonna try a few other places, other than AZ Gardens. I've got one or two more fish I'm looking for.

As for a QT, I think they are great. I've had 3 clown loaches in one for 3 weeks now and they are looking good. They all had ich and bad fins when I purchased them, but I figured I could get them straightened-out. Now they are swimming around quickly, with very erect fins, and they look like they have put on a little in the belly area. I'm going to put them in my tank that has a lonely clown loach very soon.
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Old 04-14-2005, 12:16 AM   #25
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Black Udder posted some great links on identifying SAEs. Well I think I am 99.99% right that I purchased mine as "true" SAEs and not any variety of Flying Foxes... here's a couple of pics of my SAEs.... I hope this helps. Notice the clear fins, especially the top fin on my SAE... I believe flying foxes have a stripe, not clear:

SAE posing with my banana plant which happens to be growing almost before our eyes... it may deserve a post in the planted forum:


and here, SAE posing with my new RAM (I believe it's a Bolivian, not German Blue):


Any experts out there... please correct me if I am wrong about these being true SAEs. They are similiar to flying foxes in shape/size and even their black stripes. If you already have flying foxes, then you probably distinguish the two.
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:09 AM   #26
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Yes, that is a true SAE. IMEX the easiest character is if there is any indication of a white stripe above the black stripe, then it's probably not a true SAE. Flying foxes have distinct upper white stripe. I think people begin to doubt their ability to ID them after going to 5 different LFS seeing tanks with supposed true SAEs that don't match what they're reading on-line. To add to the confusion, there seem to be many people telling you a pic is not a true SAE when it really is. Given, some pics can have bad lighting (e.g. the black stripe will look like it doesn't extend all the way).
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Old 04-21-2005, 02:36 PM   #27
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Might as well chime in with my AZ Gardens experience, even though this is obviously the wrong forum.

I placed an order two weeks ago for eight adult SAEs, six Ottos, and two cherry red shrimp. I asked specifically for a Thursday delivery if possible.
The next Thursday I had not heard anything from them. I wrote and asked if the shipment was on its way because I did not want to miss the delivery. They wrote back almost immediately saying they had sent me an email about not shipping my order because they were out of SAEs. Funny, I never received an email.
Since my order had not shipped, I decided to make some changes. I asked the Ottos be removed and instead two wood shrimp be added. They acknowledged this change.
My order did ship yesterday and I received it today, a Thursday as requested. All the livestock were in order and reflected the changes I had made. All the shrimp were alive and looked good. Three of the eight SAEs were dead on arrival, and all the others look banged up a bit but alert. Everything is in their respective tanks now and have been for about four hours as of this writing.

Notes:
The "Cherry Red Shrimp" were VERY small. I knew they'd be small, but I was convinced I had received ghost shrimp at first! But once they were in their tank and acclimating, their intense red color returned nicely.
The wood shrimp were BIG. Adults, for certain.
The SAEs are indeed true SAEs, and I know they are difficult shippers. However, the dead SAEs looked like they had died within minutes of being packaged. Signs of decay were already present. It makes one wonder if the problem is in the capture and packaging, and not the shipping itself.
Also, in each bag a strand or two of anacharis was included. Very nice looking, too! I know it is probably to make the fish feel better during shipment, but wouldn't the plant be using up oxygen during these dark conditions?
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Old 04-21-2005, 07:44 PM   #28
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Update: One of the five surviving SAEs died. Four to go...
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Old 04-22-2005, 07:02 PM   #29
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24 hours later, only one is still alive.

I should add that right when the shipment came in and I saw the dead SAEs I emailed AZgardens to let them know, since supposedly they will give a store credit for dead-on-arrivals. I have yet to hear back from them.
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Old 04-22-2005, 09:34 PM   #30
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Sorry to hear you had the same experience with AZgardens as I did (at least you didn't get Ick from the shipment as I did). I had one hang on for 4-5 days...until he started swimming around in circles and was dead the next day.

I think it was Dax had good luck with his SAEs from aquariumfish.net. I had good luck with them with other fish in the past too...I will try them the next time I dare to buy fish. My tank still hasn't recovered from the bad shipment yet!! I lost 2 Neon Rainbow and all 9 Cherry Bards and a Rasbora. LFS thinks that Velvet my have come along with the Ick from my AZgarden shipment...she thinks thats the only thing could have taken down so many fish so fast!

WC
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40 Gallon Breeder Salt Water: 4 inch DSB (2/3 Agaramax & 1/3 Sea Flor), Bak Pak 2R Skimmer w/ BBX, 2 x JBJ PHs, Coralife Lunar Aqualight (2x96w), 30lb Base Rock and 40lbs of Live Rock.
Inhabitants: Purple Firefish, Pygmy Angel, Lawmower Blenny, 2 Cleaner Shrimp, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, Pistol Shrimp(HH), 1 Emerald Crabs, 3 Porcelin Crabs(HH), varying amounts and varieties of hermit and snails.

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Old 04-23-2005, 10:18 AM   #31
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Final update: Final because... the final SAE died last night.

On the other hand, all the shrimp are doing great, and look great, too. Given this, I would not hesitate to order shrimp from AZgardens again. Fish, no.
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Old 04-23-2005, 01:42 PM   #32
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new order from liveaquaria

I received an order from l[b]iveaquaria[/b] about 1.5 weeks ago. I ordered 6 otos and 3 angelicus loaches. All are still alive and thriving. I would recommend them along with aquariumfish.
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Old 04-23-2005, 01:43 PM   #33
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That should be liveaquaria.
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Old 04-23-2005, 02:04 PM   #34
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You know you can edit your own posts, right?
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Old 04-23-2005, 03:47 PM   #35
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editing posts

Nope. I didn't know that. How is it done?
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:02 PM   #36
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Hit the "edit" button in the post you want to edit. Make your changes then submit.
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Old 04-24-2005, 09:03 AM   #37
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Sorry to hear about the SAEs. I still miss mine...I think they were a great looking fish! I feel an Aquariumfish.net order happening soon.

As for Shrimp....unfortunately freshwater shrimp, and all freshwater invertebrates are illegal in the Great State of Maine..so I can't see mylsef getting any of those.

I have a $40 credit at AZgardens...so I will probably use that for some plants at some point. Plants from there were quite nice.

WC
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90 Gallon Fresh Water Planted w/ CO2:
7 Brilliant Rasbora, 6 Harlequin Rasboras, 3 Dwarf Neon Rainbows, 1 Red Tailed Shark, 2 American Flag Fish, 4 Skunk Botia Loaches

40 Gallon Breeder Salt Water: 4 inch DSB (2/3 Agaramax & 1/3 Sea Flor), Bak Pak 2R Skimmer w/ BBX, 2 x JBJ PHs, Coralife Lunar Aqualight (2x96w), 30lb Base Rock and 40lbs of Live Rock.
Inhabitants: Purple Firefish, Pygmy Angel, Lawmower Blenny, 2 Cleaner Shrimp, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, Pistol Shrimp(HH), 1 Emerald Crabs, 3 Porcelin Crabs(HH), varying amounts and varieties of hermit and snails.

3 Gallon Eclipse:
1 Goldfish (won free at a fair...cost $50 in equipment)
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Old 04-24-2005, 09:27 AM   #38
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I still haven't heard from AZgardens, so they'll be seeing a chargeback soon enough.

Let me know how you come out with aquariumfish.net. Their site is a bit cluttered and navigation-intense, but they seem to have some nice stuff.
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Old 02-05-2006, 10:50 AM   #39
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...It is been 10 months since I had my bad SAE experience with AZGardens that took down 1/2 the fish in my tank...and 10 months since I have added any fish to my tank.

Just wanted to report that I received 12 VERY NICE Siamese Algae Eaters 2 weeks ago from www.aquariumfish.net. All were received healthy even in the cold New England weather, and I did not loose any of them. They are nicely schooling together...with nice fat bellies. They are slowly but surely doing a great job ridding my tank of green slime algae.

Price was $3.50 or $4.00 each. I could not be more happy! My freshwater tank will finally get some well deserved attention!

I have always had great luck with www.aquariumfish.net in the past...and I am glad to see more than a year later, they are still doing a great job.

Whitecloud
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90 Gallon Fresh Water Planted w/ CO2:
7 Brilliant Rasbora, 6 Harlequin Rasboras, 3 Dwarf Neon Rainbows, 1 Red Tailed Shark, 2 American Flag Fish, 4 Skunk Botia Loaches

40 Gallon Breeder Salt Water: 4 inch DSB (2/3 Agaramax & 1/3 Sea Flor), Bak Pak 2R Skimmer w/ BBX, 2 x JBJ PHs, Coralife Lunar Aqualight (2x96w), 30lb Base Rock and 40lbs of Live Rock.
Inhabitants: Purple Firefish, Pygmy Angel, Lawmower Blenny, 2 Cleaner Shrimp, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, Pistol Shrimp(HH), 1 Emerald Crabs, 3 Porcelin Crabs(HH), varying amounts and varieties of hermit and snails.

3 Gallon Eclipse:
1 Goldfish (won free at a fair...cost $50 in equipment)
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Old 02-10-2006, 05:23 PM   #40
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Lately I have been ordering fish from many places that do mail order. I've found that for the most part the fish arrive in good shape. I just can't find the quality I'm looking for at the lfs. My lfs is also in denial about the ich problem they continue to nurture.
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