Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Freshwater > Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 09-24-2013, 04:05 PM   #1
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
JimmyJBBPJMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 23
Minnows for cycling?

I just set up a 55gal tank for cichlids. Can I buy feeder minnow to cycle my tank and then just add the cichlids to get rid of the minnows? How many minnow should I get? I'm also using filter media from my 75 gallon community tank to help with the cycle. The 55gal is also already planted with 4 bunches of anacharis.
__________________

__________________
JimmyJBBPJMT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 04:22 PM   #2
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
shellieca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ontario, CA
Posts: 1,622
Why not just do fishless? You really shouldn't have much of a cycle, if any, since you're using seeded filter media.
__________________

__________________
shellieca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 04:24 PM   #3
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
JimmyJBBPJMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 23
I've never cycled a tank with used filters before so I don't know how much it actually helps.
__________________
JimmyJBBPJMT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 04:30 PM   #4
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
shellieca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ontario, CA
Posts: 1,622
If the filter media is seeded well you really shouldn't have a cycle. I've transferred media from an old tank to a new one & there was never a cycle in the new tank. If you can get pure ammonia, I'd go that route, dose the new tank & see what happens.
__________________
shellieca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 08:15 PM   #5
AA Team Emeritus
 
Wy Renegade's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 4,754
Personally, I never mix native wild caught with tropicals. Your wild caught often carry diseases that they are resistant to, which your tropicals will not be. Additionally, feeder minnows are coldwater fish, and your tropicals are . . . well tropical. Hence the water temperature requirements for the two fish are going to be very different.
__________________
the Bog

"Listen to some of these guys talk, and it's like they were born from their momma's belly with a fishkeeping encyclopedia in one hand and an API kit in the other" (unrevealed).
Wy Renegade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 09:08 PM   #6
member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 629
Why is everyone so set on a fishless cycle

Just go buy a few goldfish they are hard as nails

Please please don't say its cruel as people have been keeping goldfish in bowls for years and changing the whole bowl water at once

Goldfish are strong fish
__________________
T1KARMANN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 09:18 PM   #7
AA Team Emeritus
 
Wy Renegade's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 4,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by T1KARMANN View Post
Why is everyone so set on a fishless cycle

Just go buy a few goldfish they are hard as nails

Please please don't say its cruel as people have been keeping goldfish in bowls for years and changing the whole bowl water at once

Goldfish are strong fish
First of all, lets look at what is being said. Nobody has said anything about a fishless cycle. It was pointed out that if the OP is using seeded filter material, than cycle isn't needed.

How do you justify put goldfish into this equation? Regardless of whether goldfish are hard as nails or not, they are a coldwater fish, so why in the world would you be recommending them for cycling a tropical tank?

Cichlids in general will eat the fins of a goldfish in 24 hours or less, is this not cruel?

Just because people who don't know any better have been doing something for years that makes it ok, and not cruel? There are countless threads on this forum about how goldfish need large tanks with lots of filtration. If they don't have a big enough tank, they excrete a chemical in the water that stunts their external growth, but not their internal grow and basically the smushing of their internal organs causes death in a time period much shorter than their normal life span - please explain how that is not cruel to the fish? Don't ask people to say something isn't cruel, when the practice you are advocating is exactly that.

Personally I have nothing at all against a fish-in cycle, provided that an individual knows what they are doing. There is actually an excellent article on the forum written by one of the mods that explains how to do a fish-in cycle correctly.
__________________
the Bog

"Listen to some of these guys talk, and it's like they were born from their momma's belly with a fishkeeping encyclopedia in one hand and an API kit in the other" (unrevealed).
Wy Renegade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 07:05 AM   #8
member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by shellieca View Post
Why not just do fishless? You really shouldn't have much of a cycle, if any, since you're using seeded filter media.
I'm sure this says fishless cycle Yes goldfish are cold water but it take seconds to unplug a heater doesn't it As the goldfish would be the only fish in the tank to cycle it I don't see a problem People have been keeping goldfish in bowls for years by you saying its wrong you are slagging off a large percentage of the hobby

You could return the goldfish once the tank is cycled it wouldn't be a problem it's not like they will be big tank busters
__________________
T1KARMANN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 08:11 AM   #9
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Gulf Breeze, Florida
Posts: 417
The "fish in" cycle is the only way to go

Quote:
Originally Posted by T1KARMANN View Post
Why is everyone so set on a fishless cycle

Just go buy a few goldfish they are hard as nails

Please please don't say its cruel as people have been keeping goldfish in bowls for years and changing the whole bowl water at once

Goldfish are strong fish
********
I can't figure that one out either. Who wants to watch a dead tank for a month ???? ........ And the constant testing of the water ...... you gotta really be bored to enjoy that. My method for knowing when the tank has cycled is when the water turns crystal clear.

It is no more "inhumane" to use minnows in a "fish-in" cycle than it is to use them as fish bait !!!!!!!! I even returned the minnows I bought at 10 cents each to the LFS after my tank cycled in about a week. My method:

1) Add water to tank
2) Let sit a few days
3) Add minnows
4) Feed daily
5) When water turns clear ...... add regular stock.

I posted as I cycled my 29 gallon tank. Watch the water turn from cloudy to clear. Here is my idea of how to do it right for the 99% of the population that prefers something closer to "instant gratification:":

#1 Seed filter

Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community - Paul1792's Album: Paul1792's 29 gallon - Picture

#2 Stare at ugly cloudy empty tank:

Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community - Paul1792's Album: Paul1792's 29 gallon - Picture

#3 Add minnows:

Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community - Paul1792's Album: Paul1792's 29 gallon - Picture

#4 Remove miinnows .... return them to LFS and buy $100 or so of fish then ENJOY your tank instead of the test tubes from your API mater test kit:

Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community - Paul1792's Album: Paul1792's 29 gallon - Picture

(by the way ....... I am still waitng for the iphone app that lets you dip your smart phone in the water and it prints out a digital reading. This drop thing with the API test kit is like using a rotary phone to make a phone call ..... no, actually more like sending messages via telegraph. I am semi color blind and have to have someone else read my results ...... kind of like needing a seeing eye dog)
__________________
Paul1792 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 08:56 AM   #10
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Fishlover3578's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 841
I'm doing fish in cycle and only reason I've lost fishes is cause fungus outbreak and then once in a while lose a new fish but usually i refund time .but I can only buy from Petsmart and pet supplies plus . I found a non chain store but it doesn't have much to choose from yet cuz hasnt been ope a year yetand is about 30 min away .. I test water once a week now and do PWC about once a week... I'm going to try do either smaller or less often . I got seeded filters for my tanks halfway into it I have API test kit so far no spikes

I started cycle usin feeder guppys and fancy
__________________
Fishlover3578 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 10:35 AM   #11
HN1
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
HN1's Avatar


 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ga
Posts: 8,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1792 View Post
********
I can't figure that one out either. Who wants to watch a dead tank for a month ???? ........ And the constant testing of the water ...... you gotta really be bored to enjoy that. My method for knowing when the tank has cycled is when the water turns crystal clear.

It is no more "inhumane" to use minnows in a "fish-in" cycle than it is to use them as fish bait !!!!!!!! I even returned the minnows I bought at 10 cents each to the LFS after my tank cycled in about a week. My method:

1) Add water to tank
2) Let sit a few days
3) Add minnows
4) Feed daily
5) When water turns clear ...... add regular stock.

I posted as I cycled my 29 gallon tank. Watch the water turn from cloudy to clear. Here is my idea of how to do it right for the 99% of the population that prefers something closer to "instant gratification:":

#1 Seed filter

Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community - Paul1792's Album: Paul1792's 29 gallon - Picture

#2 Stare at ugly cloudy empty tank:

Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community - Paul1792's Album: Paul1792's 29 gallon - Picture

#3 Add minnows:

Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community - Paul1792's Album: Paul1792's 29 gallon - Picture

#4 Remove miinnows .... return them to LFS and buy $100 or so of fish then

There is absolutely nothing about this practice that I would recommend to any hobbyist, new or old. There are far too many flaws in this to go into. I'd suggest that you do some reading on the actual chemical processes that take place both in the water and the fish during a cycle. Start with the articles here and then branch out. Personally, and no offense is intended, this may be the worst possible advice that I've seen on cycling a tank.
__________________
Question everything you see on the internet. ~ George Orwell
HN1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 10:55 AM   #12
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
shellieca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ontario, CA
Posts: 1,622
I think this is getting off topic & some comments are a little rude.

To the OP, because you have seeded media in your filter there should be little to no cycle to have to worry about. Whether you do fish LESS or fish IN, IMO, doesn't matter. Fish IN works fine, its what I've always done. I asked about fish LESS because you didn't have any fish yet. However, I do not condone getting "throw away" fish for the cycling process. I do suggest that when you decide to add your main fish you do so slowly so as not overwhelm the BB you have.
__________________
shellieca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 11:52 AM   #13
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Gulf Breeze, Florida
Posts: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by shellieca View Post
I think this is getting off topic & some comments are a little rude.

To the OP, because you have seeded media in your filter there should be little to no cycle to have to worry about. Whether you do fish LESS or fish IN, IMO, doesn't matter. Fish IN works fine, its what I've always done. I asked about fish LESS because you didn't have any fish yet. However, I do not condone getting "throw away" fish for the cycling process. I do suggest that when you decide to add your main fish you do so slowly so as not overwhelm the BB you have.
*****************
My real point was that there is no need to go through the pain and time of a 4 - 6 week fishless cycle.

HN1 obviously did not click on any of my links where I describe my entire cycling process. Especially, the note under the picture of "day 9" where I explicitly stated:

Day 9 Cycle complete; Ammonia & Nitrite ZERO, Nitrate 5 ppm. Fluval foam pre-filter added to intake after sitting in "dirty water" section of AquaClear 30-60 on the 38 gallon to absorb some bb.

In other words, I tested the water before putting in 10 new fish (same number as I had minnows in during the "fish-in" cycle). I simply avoided the hassle of constantly having to add chemicals and monitoring the ammonia and nitrite levels. Once the water was odorless and crystal clear, I tested it just before adding fish to make certain it was safe.

You are right about not adding all the fish at once. When I added 9 more fish a few days later, I did get a slight "bloom" of beneficial bacteria due to the increased bio-load. It cleared up in a few days.
__________________
Paul1792 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 12:16 PM   #14
jlk
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
jlk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: philadelphia suburbs
Posts: 11,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1792 View Post
*****************
My real point was that there is no need to go through the pain and time of a 4 - 6 week fishless cycle.

HN1 obviously did not click on any of my links where I describe my entire cycling process. Especially, the note under the picture of "day 9" where I explicitly stated:

Day 9 Cycle complete; Ammonia & Nitrite ZERO, Nitrate 5 ppm. Fluval foam pre-filter added to intake after sitting in "dirty water" section of AquaClear 30-60 on the 38 gallon to absorb some bb.

In other words, I tested the water before putting in 10 new fish (same number as I had minnows in during the "fish-in" cycle). I simply avoided the hassle of constantly having to add chemicals and monitoring the ammonia and nitrite levels. Once the water was odorless and crystal clear, I tested it just before adding fish to make certain it was safe.

You are right about not adding all the fish at once. When I added 9 more fish a few days later, I did get a slight "bloom" of beneficial bacteria due to the increased bio-load. It cleared up in a few days.
You posted links to your photo album. There are no descriptions of your cycling process. Testing your water prior to adding fish or any suitable ammonia source obviously will show great results because the tank has yet to start the cycling process. Odorless, clear water is NOT indicative of a healthy, cycled tank. I can fill a glass of water from my faucet and it will be odorless and clear, too, but it is certainly not 'cycled'. This is a ridiculous assumption.
__________________
jlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 12:54 PM   #15
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Gulf Breeze, Florida
Posts: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlk View Post
You posted links to your photo album. There are no descriptions of your cycling process. Testing your water prior to adding fish or any suitable ammonia source obviously will show great results because the tank has yet to start the cycling process. Odorless, clear water is NOT indicative of a healthy, cycled tank. I can fill a glass of water from my faucet and it will be odorless and clear, too, but it is certainly not 'cycled'. This is a ridiculous assumption.
**************
Do the descriptions under each photo not show up on everyone else's computer and not just mine????

Please go here and scroll down

Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community - Paul1792's Album: Paul1792's 29 gallon - Picture

Is there not a full explanation there along with the photo? If not, I apologize.

Tap water here STINKS out of the tap like a combo of raw sewage & chlorine bleach. I use mostly spring water. 50% of the water in the new tank was from a 33 month old established tank. The water turned cloudy ........ then clear over about a week. I used a seeded filter . This means the tank cycled during that week. PERIOD. All 29 fish doing great.
__________________
Paul1792 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 01:25 PM   #16
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Rivercats's Avatar



POTM Champion
Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 13,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1792 View Post
I used a seeded filter . This means the tank cycled during that week. PERIOD. All 29 fish doing great.
There is the magic words... you used a seeded filter which is why your tank cycled so quickly. Had you not used seeded media then the way you cycled would not have worked.

OP personally if your adding a lot of seeded media I would get a small amount of the fish you intend on keeping and add them in straight away. Just watch your levels ammonia/nitrites/nitrates and do a WC if the ammonia or nitrite goes above .25ppm. BUT if you have added enough seeded media you shouldn't have any issues at all. I would not add or use minnows simply because as already stated they can carry diseases our aquarium fish could be very susceptible to.
__________________
Rivercats 220g planted tank
Rivercats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 02:01 PM   #17
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
JimmyJBBPJMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 23
Thanks everybody! I put some extra used filter material in and now have six used filters seeding. Add two African cichlids and they're doing great.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image-708891746.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	208.0 KB
ID:	199726  
__________________
JimmyJBBPJMT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 08:17 PM   #18
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Rivercats's Avatar



POTM Champion
Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 13,146
With that much seeded media you actually should add more fish so there is enough waste to keep the BB fed. If not some of the BB will die down to a point that there is only enough for the bio-load you have.
__________________
Rivercats 220g planted tank
Rivercats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 08:29 PM   #19
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
JimmyJBBPJMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 23
I used 4 carbon canisters that had been use in my 75 gallon tank for three weeks and commercial blue pad filters that had been used in the 75 for two weeks. Is that enough bacteria to require more fish? I only ask since none of them had been used for a significant amount of time.
__________________
JimmyJBBPJMT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 08:36 PM   #20
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Rivercats's Avatar



POTM Champion
Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 13,146
But the fact you used all that even if each only had some BB on them, it's still going to add up to a significant amount so honestly I'd get a few more fish. It's a 55g tank and 2 fish with that much seeded media I'd probably do 6-10 fish total.
__________________

__________________
Rivercats 220g planted tank
Rivercats is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cycling, minnows, minnow

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off








» Photo Contest Winners







All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.