My Current Tank Conditions

[timn99]

I have a 25 gallon freshwater tank, and lost a few fish over the last month. Two Giant Dainos remained, so I made it my objective to get informed about the Nitrogen cycle and how to get the tank fully cycled.

I have an AC50 HOB filter (sponge, sponge, Bio-Max ceramic rings) and an AC30 powerhead, circulating the top surface of the water.

I went to a local Marineland dealer, and bought 1 oz of Bio-Spira refrigerated ($16.99 OUCH!) and some Seachem Prime. My water with the AP Master test kit before adding the Bio-Spira and 2 Tiger Barbs plus 2 Gouramis (Gold and Blue Cobalt):

BEFORE BIO-SPIRA 7/18/07
ph 7.6
NH3 0.5 ppm
NO2 1.0 ppm
NO3 10 ppm

Day 2 7/19
NH3 0.25
NO2 1.0
NO3 10

Day 5 7/22
NH3 0.25
NO2 1.0
NO3 10

Day 6 7/23
NH3 0
NO2 1.0
NO3 10

Day 7 7/24
NH3 0
NO2 1.0
NO3 20

Feeding sparingly daily, and plan to do a 25% PWC today, with Prime added as de-chlorinator. Any suggestions, recommendations? Should I vacuum the gravel when doing the PWC? Seems like the Nitrite is stuck on 1.0 ppm for several days.

[neilanh]

I'd say you're at the backend of your cycle. Since you have inhabitants in the tank, you need to do a large PWC to get the NO2 down. 50% PWC is not an issue, I do that weekly in all my tanks. Vacuuming the gravel won't have a big impact either way, so do so if you think it's needed. You'll want to keep the NO2 level below 0.5ppm to keep things healthy for your fish. That may mean daily PWCs for a while, just keep an eye on the levels and react accordingly. It's the high levels of ammonia and nitrite that you went through that are most likely what caused you to lose your fish.

[rkilling1]

PWC is a good idea as neilanh has said. If your fish seem stressed or are at the surface of the water, you may want to add some salt to help them deal with the NO2's.

[SPARTAN VI]

Having a similar problem with nitrites which just wont leave. Ruled out my water source after testing. NO2 hit 1.0 when I performed a 75% water change. An hour after doing so, I tested it again and NO2 was at .25. I do have some conditioning salts and to this point have only been putting in 1tsp every PWC. I have live plants in my tank, and read that even a small amount of salt can harm them.

[rkilling1]

That is correct, salt and plants do not mix well together.

[neilanh]

It's not uncommon for nitrItes to "stick" around 1-1.5 for a while.

[SPARTAN VI]

Yep, definitely stuck. Came home just now, NO2 came out to .5 Performed a 70% water change and now it's barely down to .25 again. AH!

[neilanh]

once they break free of that 1-1.5 range, you're cycle is done typically within a day or two.

Congrats!

[timn99]

OK, I did a 40% PWC yesterday with Prime to de-chlorinate.

This morning, tested the water again. Here were the results:

Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 0.25 ppm
Nitrate 20 ppm

Should I do another PWC to bring the NO2 and NO3 down even further, or let it continue to cycle for a few days.

Looking to the future, can I add more fish? If so, how many more and any recommendations based on my current fish load of:
2 Giant Dainos
2 Tiger Barbs
2 Gouramis (Dwarf and Blue)

[neilanh]

As far as your cycle goes, you're okay for today. Keep the NO2 below .5 and your remaining fish should be okay.

[timn99]

OK, some good news, the NH3 has been 0 for 5 days now so looks like Nitrosomonas bacteria colony has established.

Tested again this morning with the API master test kit, and nitrite shade has changed very, very close to the 0 ppm reading. I will verify again tomorrow.

NO3 reading between 10-20 ppm. Looks like my cycle may be finished very soon. Do I need to do a final PWC before introducing more fish to my load?

Will probably add 3 more Tiger Barbs to complete the shoal, and something else. Recommendations to go with the existing 2 Giant Dainos, 2 Gouramis, 2 Tigers? What about Rainbowfish and Corys?

[neilanh]

PWCs are never a bad thing, IMO. But, if you're reading below 20ppm NO3, you're probably ok for now without.

[SPARTAN VI]

Yep, just a couple days after using Bio Spira, looks like my cycle is complete.

From the day I got my API test kit (or at least started recording results):

7/17
NH3 = 0.5
NO2 = 0.25
NO3 = 5.0

7/19
NH3 = 0.5
NO2 = 0.5
NO3 = 5.0

50% PWC
NH3 = Did not test
NO2 = .025

7/21
NH3 = 0.5
NO2 = 0.5
NO3 = 5.0

75% PWC
NO2 = 0.25

7/24
NH3 = 0
NO2 = 0.5
NO3 = 5.0

75% PWC
NO2 = .25

7/25
NH3 = 0
NO2 = 0.5
NO3 = Did not test

50% PWC
NO2 = 0.25

*added Bio Spira that night

7/27
NH3 = 0
NO2 = 0.25
NO3 = 5.0

7/28
NH3 = 0
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 5.0

This is in a planted 10 gallon. Stocked with 4 Tiger barbs, 2 Tinfoil barbs, and 3 Mickey Mouse platies. Will be upgrading to a 50-60 gallon in a few weeks.

[timn99]

A day or two after my test results showed that tank was cycled, with 0 ammonia and nitrites and 20 ppm NO3, I went out to LFS and purchased 3 green tiger barbs to add to existing 2 tiger barbs, gold gourami, blue gourami, and 2 Giant Dainos. I also purchased a rock cave decoration, which replaced my Roman arch decoration in the tank. I rinse it, and let it dry before putting into the tank.

When I got home, I acclimated the 3 new green barb for about 1 hour, adding some tank water every 15 minutes to the bag. Shortly after releasing the green barbs into the tank, I noticed one of the green barb was freaking out, having seizure-like movements and swimming erratic. He then settled down and returned to acting normal again through the night swimming with the other green barbs. The next day he was fine, but now one of my regular Tiger barbs was floating around listless sometimes, then swim nornal on and off. This went on for the day, but he didn't make it the next morning.

That day, everything was fine, and now this morning I wake up to my Blue Gourami sitting on the bottom lifeless, and 2 of the green barbs sucked up against the filter intake. Any ideas what's going on, is there a virus introduced into the tank from the 3 green tigers I brought home recently.

When the fishes were acting erratic, I continued to check the water and ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates were fine. The ammonia may have risen very, very, very slightly but below 0.25 ppm. It was very yellow, but may have a slight tinge of green. I'm also running an AC50 HOB, with an AC30 powerhead, pushing water at the surface on its lowest setting.

Did I?
1. have a small quick ammonia spike when introducing the 3 green barbs
2. green barbs were sick and introduced virus to tank
3. incompatibility of fish species, occurence of attack by one of the inhabitants
4. Other

[neilanh]

Hmmm, that's a tough one. I don't think that small of an ammonia spike would be cause for concern. The fact that your original inhabitants are affected that quickly is interesting.

Quick question, after you got done acclimating the new fish, did you place just the fish, or did you dump the bag of water containing the LFS water into your tank?

[timn99]

Sorry for the rant, but I'm just a little frustrated because I thought I'd understood the Nitrogen cycle and took all precautions to have a fully cycled tank before introducing any new fish.

To answer your question, I never pour any of the LFS water into my tank. Only used the net to scoop them out and place them gently into the tank.

[neilanh]

i think you understand it too, and I still don't believe anything to do with the nitrogen cycle had anything to do with this.