My severums laid eggs last night on the glass

[Jacky12]

I have an orange male and a green female that looks far more grey than green to me. She deposited eggs on the same rear wall about a month ago & they ate everyone. These were left in the same location. As before, they are staring transfixed for now & I’m guessing these eggs will be eaten soon as well.

[Andy Sager]

Originally Posted by Jacky12

I have an orange male and a green female that looks far more grey than green to me. She deposited eggs on the same rear wall about a month ago & they ate everyone. These were left in the same location. As before, they are staring transfixed for now & I’m guessing these eggs will be eaten soon as well.

Not necessarily. It's not unusual for first spawns to be " duds" so the eggs get eaten. There's also the possibility that the female laid but the male didn't fertilize. Staring at the eggs is common as the parents need to keep them clean and aerated so they are constantly on the watch. If you don't see white eggs after 48-72 hours, the eggs are viable so don't be surprised if they hatch. That's going to bring on a whole new set of behaviors.

[Jacky12]

Wow! That’s exciting! Would they eat most of the fry like my OBs did? The tank has a lot of fake ficus vine that should offer good hiding spots.

Don’t know what happened with photo. Trust me, the tank is not standing on one end, ������

[Colin_T]

The reason most cichlids eat their eggs or young is because they were reared artificially away from their parents. The baby fish need to be brought up by their parents and they need to learn socialisation, brood care and other things. If they are reared without the parents, they don't learn these things and regularly eat the first few batches of eggs. then they eat the young when they start swimming. Eventually most pairs work it out but not always.

If you had mouth brooding cichlids and they ate their young when they first let the babies out to swim around, that is usually caused by hunger. The females don't eat while carrying eggs or young in the buccal pouch and they can get hungry during the 3 weeks they hold them for. If the adults are fed really well for a month before breeding, they usually have enough fat reserves to keep them going. Then offer the adult female some food when the young are first released. hopefully she eats the food instead of the babies.

[Jacky12]

Thanks for your information. You sure know fish!
I have 2 large severums & 4 smaller ones in a 125 G tank & that may be enough. Odd though how in that 6 feet long tank they deposited eggs on the same approximately 8 sq inch surface as last time.

[Andy Sager]

Originally Posted by Jacky12

Thanks for your information. You sure know fish!
I have 2 large severums & 4 smaller ones in a 125 G tank & that may be enough. Odd though how in that 6 feet long tank they deposited eggs on the same approximately 8 sq inch surface as last time.

There may be something special about that spot. From your pic, it looks like it's because it's behind a plant so there is privacy. If they were alone in the tank, they may have chosen another spot.
My Severums always spawned on a single flat rock in the middle of the tank. They were alone so no issues with other fish. With my Angelfish, some spawned on the glass in front of a picture of a sword plant leaf or a piece of driftwood. If you read through my Angelfish thread ( Wigglers2: Birth of a hatchery...) you'll see I had one pair in an Aqueon tank that was set up with the same back drop of plants and wood and slates as my other 15 pairs and they chose to spawn on the area behind the label. You may never know the reason why but the fish know exactly why they choose where they choose.

[Jacky12]

I will def read you angelfish post. Thanks for mentioning it. Prior to the first time these severums laid eggs on the glass, I was certain they had eggs and possibly even had fry behind the large rock near the glass they favor. I wasn’t about to disturb the rock and peek. The male gently chased off the other 4 much smaller Severums in this tank if they approached. So they really like this spot! n

[m.j.gomez]

Originally Posted by Jacky12

I have an orange male and a green female that looks far more grey than green to me. She deposited eggs on the same rear wall about a month ago & they ate everyone. These were left in the same location. As before, they are staring transfixed for now & I’m guessing these eggs will be eaten soon as well.

Hello, not to be the devil's advocate but if the eggs are viable be sure you have a plan for offspring. I've read where people thinking they will sell & end up w/a tank full of fish. Most people won't buy from home breeders & the ones that do are inexperienced. This would be unfair to them & you. Hope this helps!!!!!

[Jacky12]

I don’t expect many, if any, frys to make it in my Severum tank, given the large parents & 4 smaller ones. I had one baby Blue Dragon survive in a mixed cichlid tank twice. Again, I made no efforts to encourage breeding.
I purchased 12 very nice cichlids from local guys who were not breeders. They pulled the holding female and had numerous babies. I preferred this to the high cost of overnight shipping. Not to mention that even ones from the best online sellers I found disappointed. They take prime specimens that are professionally photographed under optimum conditions. I would def buy again from a home breeder. My best fish came to me “secondhand” from people who lost interest in the hobby or couldn’t keep fish for other reasons.

[Andy Sager]

Originally Posted by Jacky12

I don’t expect many, if any, frys to make it in my Severum tank, given the large parents & 4 smaller ones. I had one baby Blue Dragon survive in a mixed cichlid tank twice. Again, I made no efforts to encourage breeding.
I purchased 12 very nice cichlids from local guys who were not breeders. They pulled the holding female and had numerous babies. I preferred this to the high cost of overnight shipping. Not to mention that even ones from the best online sellers I found disappointed. They take prime specimens that are professionally photographed under optimum conditions. I would def buy again from a home breeder. My best fish came to me “secondhand” from people who lost interest in the hobby or couldn’t keep fish for other reasons.

Just a side warning, if these fish become more aggressive in breeding, they may become more aggressive towards the other tank mates. Just keep an eye on that. As for fry surviving, anything is possible but in your case, probably unlikely. Severums tend to be good parents so as they mature, their parenting skills should develop. That may not work in your favor. Be prepared to possibly split the tank with a divider or find another tank for the pair or the other fish.

[Jacky12]

I do have some egg crate panels of the correct dimensions I could use as barriers. So far the adults are ignoring the little guys. Fingers crossed!

[Andy Sager]

Originally Posted by Jacky12

I do have some egg crate panels of the correct dimensions I could use as barriers. So far the adults are ignoring the little guys. Fingers crossed!

[Jacky12]

Dang! The platter was licked clean by dawn this morning. Not a single egg left! I really don’t want more than the 6 severums in this 125 G tank, but a few babies would be nice. I have room to spare in my two 90 G tanks.

Would the babies be orange like Dad or green/grey like Mom? I had to scrape the black painted exterior paint from this tank to make Mom and the 4 smaller ones more visible. I taped a disposable aqua vinyl tablecloth to the back. These cost $10 for 5 at Amazon & are the best backgrounds I’ve found. I can double or triple the thickness to admit varying light levels for tanks near the windows.

[Andy Sager]

Originally Posted by Jacky12

Dang! The platter was licked clean by dawn this morning. Not a single egg left! I really don’t want more than the 6 severums in this 125 G tank, but a few babies would be nice. I have room to spare in my two 90 G tanks.

Would the babies be orange like Dad or green/grey like Mom? I had to scrape the black painted exterior paint from this tank to make Mom and the 4 smaller ones more visible. I taped a disposable aqua vinyl tablecloth to the back. These cost $10 for 5 at Amazon & are the best backgrounds I’ve found. I can double or triple the thickness to admit varying light levels for tanks near the windows.

Do you know who ate them? With other fish in the tank, it could have been any of them. Catfish and plecos included. If you have the eggcrate, try separating the pair from the other fish before the next spawn. If they are by themselves and still losing the eggs, it may be the fish are not fertile or the eggs are not getting fertilized so they are eaten when they die off. ( There's other possibilities as well. ) A little history for ya, when Gold Severums were first developed, the average of only 1 in 300 males was fertile. It's only been through selective breeding that more males are now fertile.

To answer this question: Would the babies be orange like Dad or green/grey like Mom? the answer is Yes. Some should be like the Dad, some like the Mom and some will be mixed and may not look like anything resembling either parent.

If the fish are young and this is just their first few tries at spawning, I wouldn't be too disappointed. It's typical of cichlids when they first start spawning. As they do it more often, the greater the chances of success.

[Jacky12]

Last time I actually observed the parents eating eggs off the glass. I did not this time. They disappeared overnight. You make a good point. It’s possible the 4 younger sevs in there or the 4 Synodontis angelicus did the deed during the night.
Very interesting genetics! Thanks for the info.

[Andy Sager]

Originally Posted by Jacky12

Last time I actually observed the parents eating eggs off the glass. I did not this time. They disappeared overnight. You make a good point. It’s possible the 4 younger sevs in there or the 4 Synodontis angelicus did the deed during the night.
Very interesting genetics! Thanks for the info.

Yeah, you definitely want to keep the angelicus from getting to the eggs as much as the other fish. No scavengers in breeding tanks.

[Jacky12]

Awe, but none of my tanks are breeding tanks. I am thrilled at discovering 5 little peacocks with their OB parents and today at spotting the other babies, but I don’t want to encourage breeding. I guess from what you’re saying I’ll never have any sev babies, but I can live with that.

I was unable to find your posts on breeding angelfish. No desire to breed them either but I like angelfish & learning about these fish.

[Andy Sager]

Originally Posted by Jacky12

Awe, but none of my tanks are breeding tanks. I am thrilled at discovering 5 little peacocks with their OB parents and today at spotting the other babies, but I don’t want to encourage breeding. I guess from what you’re saying I’ll never have any sev babies, but I can live with that.

I was unable to find your posts on breeding angelfish. No desire to breed them either but I like angelfish & learning about these fish.

I didn't say that. There's always a possibility. But if you want to have a school of fry, you'd need to take some actions.

Here's my Hatchery thread: https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...ls-324616.html

This is the original wigglers thread that you see referenced in my thread: https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...st-237956.html
both are full of my own and other breeder's experiences.
Happy reading.

[Jacky12]

Thanks for posting the link to your angelfish breeding. Were the permits required because you built an outbuilding and or planned to operate a business or both? We built a 20x20 addition onto a house once for a home gym. Oh! All the permits! To further muddle matters I acted as my own general contractor and even drew up the blueprints, using readily available books on the subject. Then the city unreasonably reassessed my house based upon that 400 sq ft & I had to petition for a tax reduction.

I bought 3 black anglefish less than a month ago at Petsmart. Two died. Almost all of my fish deaths have been from new purchases, more from big box shops than others. I think they sedate & pack them in like sardines to transport. I phoned everywhere this weekend and none were available. Today I will call a place that was closed. It specializes in saltwater, but their freshwater section is nice & appears to be increasing. The three little black guys hung out together and I feel sad seeing this one all alone.

Is it important that it be with other black angels? Would he do as well with koi or golden ones? Thanks, Andy.🙏🏻

[Andy Sager]

Originally Posted by Jacky12

Thanks for posting the link to your angelfish breeding. Were the permits required because you built an outbuilding and or planned to operate a business or both? We built a 20x20 addition onto a house once for a home gym. Oh! All the permits! To further muddle matters I acted as my own general contractor and even drew up the blueprints, using readily available books on the subject. Then the city unreasonably reassessed my house based upon that 400 sq ft & I had to petition for a tax reduction.

I bought 3 black anglefish less than a month ago at Petsmart. Two died. Almost all of my fish deaths have been from new purchases, more from big box shops than others. I think they sedate & pack them in like sardines to transport. I phoned everywhere this weekend and none were available. Today I will call a place that was closed. It specializes in saltwater, but their freshwater section is nice & appears to be increasing. The three little black guys hung out together and I feel sad seeing this one all alone.

Is it important that it be with other black angels? Would he do as well with koi or golden ones? Thanks, Andy.🙏🏻

Permits? You wouldn't believe me if I told you the whole story. Just a major pain in the arse. But the end result was what I needed so you do what you have to do to get the job done.

As for needing to be with other Black Angels, no. Other Angels should work because I'm not 100% sure the fish know what color they are. That said however, If you read my thread, you will read about a single Zebra lace female that I had paired with numerous males that spawned together only she had to beat the crap out of 2 of them. The two she didn't beat up were both Blacks ( who were brothers). Why? Can't tell you. That's fish for ya.