Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Freshwater > Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 10-10-2013, 12:28 AM   #21
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Jack sort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmunroe View Post
How much bio media was in the first filter? I'm guessing not enough. When you added the second filter and got rid of the carbon from the first, you may have lost a bit of beneficial bacteria that was housed on the carbon. And are now experiencing a bacterial bloom. Do large water changes until your filters can catch back up. And then continue to do large water changes forever because your fish will appreciate it. The more and bigger water changes you do... The closer your tank becomes to your tap and the less your fish notice it. If your fish become stressed from large water changes ie.. 50% or so, you haven't been doing enough water changes. The beneficial bacteria is in your filter media not the water column. Oh and watch your ammonia and nitrite levels if this is a possibility in case you are experiencing a mini cycle. Don't want your fish to suffer unknowingly and then all of a sudden you have fish dying.
This is a great point, I never thought about all the good bacteria that was in the carbon bag.
__________________

__________________
Jack sort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 12:35 AM   #22
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
MMantelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack sort View Post

This is a great point, I never thought about all the good bacteria that was in the carbon bag.
If you take a clear glass of tank water and hold it up to a light you can better see the color of the cloidieness wether its really white or green sometimes an algae bloom can look like a bacterial bloom. How long has the tank been up and how long are your lights on a day.
__________________

__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Check out our fish clubs Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/CFLKeepersOfAquatica
MMantelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 01:22 AM   #23
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Jack sort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMantelli View Post
If you take a clear glass of tank water and hold it up to a light you can better see the color of the cloidieness wether its really white or green sometimes an algae bloom can look like a bacterial bloom. How long has the tank been up and how long are your lights on a day.
I did the glass trick, it's white. The tank has been up for over four months, I moved up in size and moved the filter and all of the decor from my old tank. My water chemistry has always been perfect and still is.
__________________
Jack sort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 01:26 AM   #24
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Hobgob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouser View Post

Are you suggesting that the frequency and scale of water changes will affect the colonies of bacteria in the tank?

Bacteria levels in the water itself are quite low, most can be found in the filter material, attached to decor and in the substrate.

I've performed large water changes 50%-60%-70% hours apart to being levels down to safe zones.

I've even seen people preform large scale changes twice a day and not have any adverse reactions due to removing BB from the water.
I believe he is suggesting a bacterial bloom in which case yes it would. The bb hasn't colonized anywhere and is in the water colum. Doing more water changes removes that bb before it can build it causing it to go through another bloom.

Try not doing water changes as often and not feeding so much. There is actually a bacteria that cause these bloom. I believe they are called heterotrophics or something like that. But basically it's the start of the cycle. The bacteria breaks down the food into ammonia for the other bacteria. There trophics reproduce way faster then the normal bb does. This is what cause the bloom.

So mini cycle is usually the cause of this. Be it uneaten food, adding new fish, or removing to much media.
__________________
Hobgob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 06:34 AM   #25
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Jmunroe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobgob View Post
I believe he is suggesting a bacterial bloom in which case yes it would. The bb hasn't colonized anywhere and is in the water colum. Doing more water changes removes that bb before it can build it causing it to go through another bloom. Try not doing water changes as often and not feeding so much. There is actually a bacteria that cause these bloom. I believe they are called heterotrophics or something like that. But basically it's the start of the cycle. The bacteria breaks down the food into ammonia for the other bacteria. There trophics reproduce way faster then the normal bb does. This is what cause the bloom. So mini cycle is usually the cause of this. Be it uneaten food, adding new fish, or removing to much media.
This is incorrect. It's not the start of the cycle it is another unrelated bacteria. It is simply eating waste in the water column which can be removed with water changes thus reducing both the waste and the cloudy bacteria in doing so. Making your water more stable until filters can catch up. These bacteria in the water causing the bloom die off when the filter establishes enough proper bacteria or the excess waste(and the cloudy bacteria) is removed through water changes.
__________________
Jmunroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 03:03 AM   #26
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Hobgob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmunroe View Post

This is incorrect. It's not the start of the cycle it is another unrelated bacteria. It is simply eating waste in the water column which can be removed with water changes thus reducing both the waste and the cloudy bacteria in doing so. Making your water more stable until filters can catch up. These bacteria in the water causing the bloom die off when the filter establishes enough proper bacteria or the excess waste(and the cloudy bacteria) is removed through water changes.
The bacteria is what starts a fish in cycle maybe I should have been more specific. There is a Bacteria that eats uneaten food and poop and breaks it down into ammonia. This bacteria is present is the water collum causing the clouding. I did not mean it was the start of a cycle just the same bacteria present.
__________________
Hobgob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 03:04 AM   #27
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Hobgob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,893
And by far not unrelated bacteria. There was actually a thread on it. Little while ago and how when we do a fishless cycle we bypass this bacteria but reproduces so fast( causing a bloom).
__________________
Hobgob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 05:14 AM   #28
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Jmunroe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 682
It's not the same bacteria and it is unrelated.
__________________
Jmunroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 04:57 PM   #29
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Hobgob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,893
Unless your using solely RO water, your tap contains sufficient dissolved organics to feed heterotrophic bacteria. Heterotrophic bacteria exist in abundance everywhere and multiply very rapidly. These are also the bacteria behind bacterial blooms in tanks (particularly new tanks). You actually do not want these guys to grow and multiply out of control as they can outcompete your autotrophic nitrifying bacteria for oxygen.

Your not skipping a step or starving anything fishless cycling with ammonia. Also keep in mind that the largest source of ammonia in our tanks comes directly from the fish's gills, not from waste or debris that is decaying as the result of heterotrophic bacteria.


http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...ia-281180.html
if you want to learn more about it...
__________________
Hobgob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 07:49 PM   #30
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Rivercats's Avatar



POTM Champion
Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 13,146
If you have a whitish, or milky looking cloudy water, that just clouds right back up after a WC that is a bacterial bloom of heterotrophic bacteria. While most of the time these blooms will clear up in days by themselves sometimes they can go for months on end. No amount of WC's will help BUT you can in fact use a UV sterilizer to kill them and get clear water in a day or two. Many people on this site use this product with great results.... Green Killing Machine Internal UV Sterilizer with Power Head at PETCO. I've had these extended blooms a couple times over the past 30+ years and using a UV sterilizer is the quickest and easiest way to get rid of it.
__________________
Rivercats 220g planted tank
Rivercats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 09:01 PM   #31
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
ashleynicole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,787
I knew this, it is just hard to explain these different types of bacteria to the average person starting a tank. It is much easier for most people to understand that fish waste breaks down to ammonia and beneficial bacteria grow to breakdown the ammonia to nitrite and then nitrate.

I am a registered nurse so obviously have some education in microbiology. Understanding heterotrophic vs autotrophic bacteria as well is easy enough. I guess I didn't realize the white hazy cloud was attributed to the heterotrophic bacterial bloom though... but I've seen white hazy water in the early days of a fishless cycle with pure ammonia as well so that's why I was a little confused because both kinds of bacteria can haze up the water a bit when they bloom.
__________________
ashleynicole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 09:05 PM   #32
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Hobgob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,893
yay i spelt it right! ive often thought of a filter sock to catch the debris and dispose of it before it has a chance to break down to avoid these blooms also. and it would help keep my water cleaner also.
__________________
Hobgob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 12:43 AM   #33
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Jack sort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 55
Thank you everyone for the great information. I'm not sure I can wait any longer, I may have to go buy a UV sterilizer like Rivercats suggested.
__________________
Jack sort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 07:22 AM   #34
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Rockford IL
Posts: 286
Let me know how it works I want to try this product myself.
__________________
Brad M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 11:13 AM   #35
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Hobgob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,893
Stay away from jbj they are junk!!! The didn't use a uv resistant plastic over the bulb and it melts the plastic! YouTube it. I also have one and the same thing happens when I run it...
__________________
Hobgob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 02:12 PM   #36
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
MMantelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,259
Jbj do suck I have 2 on my ciclid tank although the uv housing is glass on mine the bulb is too weak for the flow and the passthrough for the water around the bulb is way to big to do anything more than a slight increase in clarity.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Check out our fish clubs Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/CFLKeepersOfAquatica
MMantelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 01:08 AM   #37
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Hobgob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,893
What's yours called mine is a submariner I think
__________________
Hobgob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2013, 02:10 PM   #38
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Jack sort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 55
Happy day!!! My tank is clear again, thanks again for the information. I ended up just waiting a little longer, I might still buy a UV sterilizer just to have though. Here is one last question, I added a sump pump with a big wad of filter floss a few weeks ago in hopes it would clean things up. My question is if I pull this out will I be removing BB and start the nightmare again??
__________________
Jack sort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 12:56 AM   #39
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Rockford IL
Posts: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack sort View Post
Happy day!!! My tank is clear again, thanks again for the information. I ended up just waiting a little longer, I might still buy a UV sterilizer just to have though. Here is one last question, I added a sump pump with a big wad of filter floss a few weeks ago in hopes it would clean things up. My question is if I pull this out will I be removing BB and start the nightmare again??
Hard to tell since you dont know where the BB has grown. I would squeeze the filter floss a bit every few days. Hopefully this will partially kill any BB in there and encourage it to grow else where. Simply unplugging the powerhead and waiting a week to remove it should produce the same result.
__________________
Brad M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 11:17 AM   #40
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Rivercats's Avatar



POTM Champion
Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 13,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad M View Post
Hard to tell since you dont know where the BB has grown. I would squeeze the filter floss a bit every few days. Hopefully this will partially kill any BB in there and encourage it to grow else where. Simply unplugging the powerhead and waiting a week to remove it should produce the same result.

Unplugging the PH will stop water flow which brings oxygen to the BB which it needs.

OP if you have a regular filter with bio media in it you should have quite a bit of BB BUT removing a large amount of floss that will have BB in it since it's been in the tank for quite some time could trigger a mini cycle. The best way to handle it would be remove 1/3 of the floss then keep running the PH. In 2 weeks remove 1/2 of the remaining floss and keep the PH running for 2 more weeks. Then you can just remove the PH with the remaining floss. By doing this you will force the bio media in your filter to increase but not so much that it will cause a mini cycle. Or if you really want the PH out of the tank then can you put about 2/3's or 1/2 of the floss into your filter? You can then remove a bit of floss at a time.
__________________

__________________
Rivercats 220g planted tank
Rivercats is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off








» Photo Contest Winners







All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.