Myth: Goldfish have shorter life spans in warmer waters.

[zacdl]

You know I was talking about temps fairly high like 80-85 right?

I am not talking about that, that was just example.

What I AM talking about is keeping one in a "warmwater" tank of 76...
Which is not that high in temperature, which is what I am addressing.

I have already said if you get into those high temps a goldfish will have a tough time, Im not disagree there.

But at 76 it will do fine.


Im gone for the rest of the day, cya!

 

[rubysoho]

no, I am not stuck on the amount of oxygen, the parts I quoted dealt with temperature and its affect on metabolism, oxygen intake, AND the amount of oxygen overall. Those three issues are linked together with the increase of temperature.

 

[TomK2]

Sigh*
8.896 minus 8.016 = 0.88
0.88 divided by 8.896 is .099, or 9.9 percent change in disolved oxygen.
sigh*

 

[tetrin]

zacdl - for once try to take in the whole picture. lets put you into the goldies shoes. say you are accustomed to living in a cold climate of noth america. your immune system has become accustomed to it. now i put you in the hot and humid climate of southern india. your immune system is bound to fail within a month (unless your a superhero ). you may adapt well enough to live on for the rest of your life, but i'm sure you wouldn't be living with the same vitality.

 

[Devilishturtles]

zac, how did you go from knowing not even how to cycle a FW tank, to being the all knowing goldfish expert?

Everyone who has responded to your thread so far are telling you what you want. You just need to listen. The reasons they are giving is why. It's not JUST goldfish, you know. It's other cooler water tropical fish as well. The cool part about bringing fish into our homes is to try and mimic the natural habitat of the species.

Your friend may very well know what they are talkinga bout, but do not discount the people here who are trying to help you just because your friend has a PhD. I'm a semester away from having a biology degree, but that doesn't make me all knowing about fish.

 

[LittlePuff]

8O



Kim

 

[greenmaji]

Just a side note.. the O2 numbers quoted were saturation numbers.. assuming your using a filter and have fish this number will be less in your tested pond, both aerobic bacteria and fish consume O2 so your water will not be saturated with O2.. testing the dissolved O2 may be misleading..

 

[Fluff]

Please don't feed the troll folks.

 

[ceratophyllum]

The claim that goldfish do not live as long in 80F+ water seems reasonable to me. The diseases, parasites, and water chemistry are different than those in a temperate region, the environment to which millions of years of natural selection has adapted the goldfish. Large domesticaed animals from Eurasia, like cows and horses, when brought to tropical Africa get sleeping sickness from trypanosome parasites from tsetse fly bites. Caucasians are less resistant to malaria and other tropical diseases than people who have lived in the tropics for generations. I don't think anyone would disagree that a tropical fish would not live as long if subjected to a temperate climate. Someone once told me that the lifespan of a Betta (from SE Asia) is greatly shortened if the fish is exposed to cold temperatures. I wonder whether it is the temperature itself or some other aspect of the cool water environment which is harming the fish?

 

[zacdl]

And like I said I am completly in agree with you guys that too warm of water can cause havoc on a goldfish, BUT this temperature is not at 76.


Devilishturtles- "zac, how did you go from knowing not even how to cycle a FW tank, to being the all knowing goldfish expert?"
I have kept ponds for longer than I have done freshwater tanks, or saltwater tanks. I have also kept freshwater in the past and used to know quite a deal, but I do need refreshers from time to time...

 

[FMJnaX]

#3- You are stuck on this not-enough-oxygen thing. In reality there is enough oxygen in the water at 76 to keep a goldfish alive, provided you have good circulation and water movement to keep oxygen high.

Ya know, I didn't want to get in to this, but the above statement sparked my interest....

zac, how exactly do you know that there is enough oxygen at 76 to keep a goldfish alive? Have you (or your professor friend) done respiratory and blood-oxygen tests on fish (or whatever tests they may be... I'm uneducated. lol)? For how many fish at what size is it enough for? I agree that if there was no oxygen, the fish would die.... but a decrease in oxygen will shorten the lifespan. It means that the blood doesn't get enough O2 which can decrease brain activity, lower metabolism, decrease immunities, and other ill effects, especially over a prolonged period of time.

So my "theories" as to why warmer water decreses the life of a goldie is this:
1) Not enough O2 in the bloodstream over time will cause the effects I noted above. Not enough O2 comes from the decreased saturation and whatnot.
2) "Tropical" diseases are present that the "coldwater" goldies aren't built to handle.
3) Some (if not most) diseases are more present and at a stronger strain because of the more ideal climate (up to 86F for some though)
4) Warmer water increases activity, thus pumping the heart faster and decreasing the life span. I've heard professors debate that the human heart has a set limit of "beats" in a lifetime... so why couldn't this "theory" apply to fish as well?
5) Warmer water increases the ill-effects of the nitrogen cycle on the fish respiratory system. While some tropical fish may be able to handle 0.5 ppm of ammonia without any signs of problem, and goldfish trying to handle 0.5 ppm of ammonia in tropical conditions can be downright deadly; and this I know from experience (lost a red cap oranda to 0.5 ppm of ammonia in 79F water)

There's a lot of theories in this thread that are quite valid. I think perhaps you need to read up more on goldfish keeping. Just because you claim to have a 1000 gal pond doesn't mean anything. An (large) outdoor pond is essentially it's own self-containing habitat in which a lot of these problems discussed in this thread do not occur (unless you poorly manage your pond).

But I agree with Fluff.... let's cease to feed the troll. This thread has no point or validity and, well, zac just needs to grow up and learn to accept others opinions or "theories". Let's all resume the conversation when we can all have an open mind on the topic.

Just my $0.02

**EDIT**
Oh, and why did you title this thread as a MYTH about warmer waters when you're talking about 76F? I don't think there are any (maybe a couple) peeps on the boards that finds 76F high. You shot down your own thread in the initial post...

 

[meya]

I know that goldfish are naturally cold water fish, however, I didn't know this sometime ago, when I had goldfish in a heated tank. Funny thing is, they lived in my tank for about 1.5 years and were doing really well, and grew quite big (3 inches, including tail).

Anyway, when I was told about how they are prodigous (as Rodger put it), I gave them to my mum for her pond. They lasted 2 months. One thing was that they never had babies.

I now have gold fish in a pond outdoors, and they have been there for about 8-9 months and the original fish are still doing really well. But I have heaps of babies.

My tank was a 114 gal tank!!

 

[zacdl]

1) Not enough O2 in the bloodstream over time will cause the effects I
noted above. Not enough O2 comes from the decreased saturation and
whatnot.

But why would you be putting into a tank that is under equipped?

2) "Tropical" diseases are present that the "coldwater" goldies
aren\'t built to handle.

Why are you putting a fish into a tank with diseases in it?

4) Warmer water increases activity, thus pumping the heart faster and
decreasing the life span. I've heard professors debate that the human
heart has a set limit of "beats" in a lifetime... so why couldn't
this "theory" apply to fish as well?

So 10,000 years ago when Meduselah (spelling?) Was alive, his heart must have been beating pretty slow then if its the same amount of beats...
More than 10x slower.

Like I said... I dont disagree with this, but even as greenmaji said, if this is the case, it isnt noticible life span differance.

5) Warmer water increases the ill-effects of the nitrogen cycle on the
fish respiratory system. While some tropical fish may be able to handle
0.5 ppm of ammonia without any signs of problem, and goldfish trying to
handle 0.5 ppm of ammonia in tropical conditions can be downright
deadly; and this I know from experience (lost a red cap oranda to 0.5 ppm of
ammonia in 79F water)

Why are you putting a goldfish into a tank with ammonia in it?
And... I have done entire cycles outside with goldfish in warm water during the summer as well.

There\'s a lot of theories in this thread that are quite valid. I think
perhaps you need to read up more on goldfish keeping. Just because you
claim to have a 1000 gal pond doesn\'t mean anything. An (large)
outdoor pond is essentially it\'s own self-containing habitat in which a lot
of these problems discussed in this thread do not occur (unless you
poorly manage your pond).

Perhaps you should try keeping a pond? It is NOT a self contained habitat, anyone that owns a pond can tell you it doesnt run itself. Its just a large fishtank thats outside... basically.

Me having a 1200 gallon pond does mean something... it means Ive been keeping goldfish longer than most of you people have been keeping tanks!

But I agree with Fluff.... let's cease to feed the troll.

Hmmm, I guess that explains why you posted this post then....

 

[zacdl]

Meya,
What kind of goldfish are they? Some (Some... not all) fancy types of goldfish dont do too well in outdoor ponds.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Zac- Besides your friend, where is your proof that goldfish do fine in warm temperatures? Everyone here is throwing out their experiences but you have yet to explain why they do fine in warm climates.

Nothing with fish is set it stone. Why don't you do an experiment since this interests you so much and you refuse to accept anything that anyone says. And IMO from reading the thread is that you would only accept someones opinion who agrees with you because you make no valid points. Why don't you set up two tanks. Set one at 76 degrees and the other at 65. Feed the same amount of food at the same time and see which one lives longer and has less health issues.

But why would you be putting into a tank that is under equipped?

The tank is underequipped because there is not enough O2. You can pump as much as you want into it, but the water will not allow enough saturation for it to be adequate. I think this is what is trying to be said but you just aren't accepting it.

 

[zacdl]

where is your proof that goldfish do fine in warm temperatures?

First of all just two people have told their experiances... the rest of you have just told opinions.


My proof? Is that goldfish outdoors in a much warmer environment (I belive my water is 82 or so, I havent checked it in a while, and my fish do fine).

Why don't you set up two tanks. Set one at 76 degrees and the other at 65. Feed the same amount of food at the same time and see which one lives longer and has less health issues.

Why dont you? No room for two tanks, and how on earth would you keep it at 65 during the summer? Large ponds with goldfish in them arent even that cool.


U know... I would rather trust all my ponding buddies that have all this oxygen input stuff they use.

And... Even those people with the horribly overstocked pond I talk about? Their water is warm too, 76 or so. Their fish arent falling over dead. And they have by all means more fish than what that pond could hold in oxygen, thier fish SHOULD be dying, but its not.
You know how they delt with it? More water flow. More water flow increases the amount of oxygen... It always has. I increased oxygen in my pond that one year, and it INCREASED oxygen. I just do not accept this saturation crap when from looking at my pond and everyone elses that I know... you increase water flow the oxygen is increased... SIMPLE!

I really dont think there is enough here to bother him again with, the only thing so far worth bothering about is the metabolism rate, but if this is true it wont be a noticible differance in life span.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

It's funny that you only accept what some says that agrees with you. I am out of this topic until it can become reasonable.

 

[zacdl]

I guess that explains why I accepted Greenmaji's theory

 

[Fishyfanatic]

You accepted that it could effect it, but then countered with, It won't be noticeable though.

 

[zacdl]

I accepted it though.
And in case you didnt see his post or something, he said the differance in life spans wont be significant either.

I accepted it... and you just said I did so why do you lie by saying I dont accept anything anybody else says?