Need advice for 20g small goldfish setup

[extremenewb]

Hi all, I'm starting up my goldfish tank and was wondering if a goldfish keeper could give me some advice. Tho scouring through these forums I can't find many of you.

Substrate: I don't know if I should have or not. I guess it's easier to see the waste if I don't have any, but then again. I don't really like a bare bottom. If I was going to have it "bare", I would just put some of those ceramic cyclinders to colonise the bacteria. But I would prefer to have some. Though I heard it's meant to be very small isn't it, since the goldfish bottom feed and may put the rocks in their mouths or something like that?

Plants: I love to heavily plant/driftwood my tanks. It's actually quite bad in my other tanks (lol); the surface area of the vacuum's head is bigger than any "bare ground" on my tank :? But since the goldies are heavy polluters, does that mean I shouldn't heavily tank coz vacuuming would be reguarly required in my tank due to their waste? (if I haven't hinted properly, I do NOT regularly vacuum, just water change)

Light: Just thinking of using stock light with my tank. (Aqua One AR-510). They don't have light requirements do they?

Food: I used to use Wardleys goldfish food but I realised that if I keep them in the tank for extended periods, wierd snails would evolve from the food, which are quite annoying to get rid of (and scary!). So I'm thinking of what to get. I think I can get access to these brands of goldfish food: Sera, Hikari, Nutrafin, and Orca. Anyone can recommend me one?

Filter: I'm using the stock filter in the tank which is in hood. Though since they give off so much waste, should I consider extra filtration (eg sponge, internal?)

Heater: Not thinking of getting them one.

Tankmates: I think I'm at the capacity atm. Though if I'm not, is there any small tankmates that are ok? (I heard perhaps bottom eaters, white clouds?) THough I don't want them to out-grow the tank too fast.

Thanks for your suggestions!

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Substrate: A fine gravel bottom
Plants: hardy, cold water plants with roots and well rounded river rocks
Light: No light requirements for the fish, but the plants are another story.
Food: We use Hikari for our other fish and love their products.
Filter: What kind of filter is it? Eclipse tank?
Heater: Not needed unless you are in the Arctic or where the room temperature will get below 65 degrees
Tankmates: I'd stick with just the goldfish. They will stand out and look beautiful all by themselves.

I don't personally keep goldfish but have searched profiles online and have read alot about them. I've just never had the patience for them. As you can see from my sig, I love aggressive fish. And goldfish are definately not aggressive .

 

[jsoong]

I disagree on the fine gravel - goldies have been known to get them stuck in the mouth/throats. I would go bare bottom or larger (1/2" & up) smooth gravel/river rocks. If you want to keep bubble eyes or veiltails, don't have any sharp edges. Also, goldies will change colour to try to match the surroundings, so a darker background/substrate will bring out better colours.

Plants - Java ferns & Anubias will do well in low light (that's 1-2 wpg! more than the typical stock light) & not be eaten. I've also had good luck with hornworts. If you want more tender plants - you might just be providing an expensive salad for your golds. OTOH, you can try the super heavily planted tank approach <saw a tank like that at kiko's site>. Basically, you have so many plants that the goldies won't be able to eat it faster than the plants will grow!

If you have lots of plant, I don't think you really need to gravel vac. I just pick up the surface crud & let the rest break down & be plant food. This has worked for me but my tank is fairly lightly stocked ... so might not work for everyone.

BTW - golds don't need light per se, but is reputed to develope better colour if exposed to sun (or strong light).

Food - I like pellets, preferable sinking type. Hikari gold & nutrifin are 2 I've used. You'll need to give regular vegetable matter too (peas, cucumbers, etc). I'd stay away from flakes entirely.

Tank mates, etc. - ? what size tank & filters, how many fish you have already?

 

[Jaxom_Ruatha]

Tank mates:
Cories are risky because when the goldies reach a certain size (most breeds are able to grow at a max of 12") they might try to eat them and the barbels will hook the cories in the goldies throat proving quite harmful to both fish envolved.

Dojo's or Weather loaches are awesome goldie companions, not only do they share a taste for colder water, but dojo's are also really neat fish usually put in ponds with goldfish although they dont get that big, they grow somewhere around 6-8" long.

Pleco's are alright, except for the common pleco which will turn carnivorous once it matures and start munching on your goldies.

Snails are also an option (although if you have dojo's most loaches love to eat snails).

A school of White Cloud Minnows are also acceptable, colorful goldfish companions.

I am sure there are more fish out there that may be compatible but most goldfish enthusiasts will tell you that there is no better companion for a goldfish than another goldfish. Also rule of thumb is 10 gallons per fancy goldfish, 15-20 gallons per comet/common goldfish, and like 100 gallons (I am guessing on this one) per koi which are more aggressive goldfish that will eat plants. It is reccomended to keep the fancies seperate from other goldfish breeds.

-Hope this helps

 

[extremenewb]

THanks for the advice fellas. This is what I'm thinking after reading thru your kind suggestions (and btw, I have 2 goldfish abt an inch big):

Substrate: Dark coloured larger substrate. I like darker colours in general: black background, etc, brings out the tank environment n fish better IMO.

What type of substrate depth should I be looking at? Only "planted in gravel" plants I see are crypts and hornworts. I generally prefer a depth pretty much to the minimum required.

Hopefully the goldies mouths won't be able to pick it up easily, though I'm thinking about the problem with a lot of waste being stuck in between the larger crevices. Which brings me to my next point:

Plants: Back to my favourite heavy planting. As jsoong suggested,java fern/moss, anubias, hornwort, crypts, maybe some sort of grass like plant. I think most ppl would suggest med to high lights for the grassy ones, but the one I have in my current community is living fine, tho not thriving and propagating profusely. Another driftwood. eck these plants are gonna cost me a bit.. lol

Light: I'll survive on stock light (hopefully). If the plants don't, I'll look to replace it but thats in the future.

Food: Going for the sinking pellet type. I've used hikari for bettas (bio-gold) and quite pleased with that, so I guess I'll try their goldfish range. Though, hmmm, choices:

I can choose from Hikari Gold Baby Pellet, Hikari Lionhead, and Hikari Oranda Gold. Which one would be good, or any at random? (btw, my goldies still quite small. an inch I'll say)

Filter: Filter is similar to the eclipse. Water is driven up a motor then passed thru filter floss. Anyway, I've decided to add in a single or maybe dual sponge (filter with 2 separated sponges but one air flow valve that splits). (Thinking of my QT tank; I can use a sponge thats colonised with bacteria when I need to QT)

Heater: lol Fishyfantic. Nah I'm not in those regions (Sydney, Australia). Weathers generally between 10 to 35 degrees (sorry don't know Farenheit). It'll be right tho for the fish

Tankmates: Actually, I might not go with a bottom-feeder (due to higher than usual waste/bottom feeding nature of goldfish - I was thinking - probably totally unfounded). If I were to add mates, I'll most likely add a school of white clouds. But goldfish first. Another future thought. Sorry not a real fan of snails.

Thanks again for your advice.

 

[jsoong]

Substrate depth - doesn't matter to the fishies .... the plants you want will determine what you need. I have a 1-2" bed of fine stuff (aquatic soil) in one part of the tank, this is for plants that need soil. Then I cover that (and the bare bottom part) with a layer of river rocks for looks (& so the goldies won't dig in the plant bed). You can also make slopes, etc with the pebbles/ rocks to suit your tastes.

Food - variety is the key. I used baby pellets when goldies are small, then switch to bigger size pellets. I have a couple of different pellets & feed different ones plus veggies. Varying the diet is said to decrease the risk of getting gut/swimbladder problems.

Your idea of additional filter is good - more is always better! Plus you have a backup in case one quits & for QT use.

You don't really need any tankmates with a pair of golds. Most people put them in for reasons of estetics, or variety, etc. White Clouds will go well with golds, but make sure you get bigger ones. Baby white clouds will become tasty snacks in short order!

 

[extremenewb]

hmm.. I've already put in about an inch of "coloured rocks" from the LFS. I don't think it's high enough yet. Is it too late to add another type of substrate, or should I keep to adding the same one? (ie for viewing purposes, but also for plant care)

I think the peas have worked wonders for my goldfish. Initially it was floating upside down like 90% of the time, now it swims "significantly less oddly" around with less bouyancy (spelling? )

Well, it seems out of the Hikari and Nutrafin range, there is only one type of sinking pellet (which i want). Rest are floating. When you mention variety, does that mean different brands of food? Or actually different types of food like frozen foods, etc. Would it be bad for me to have just that one type of Hikari fish food + peas?

Cheers.

 

[jsoong]

It was said (in a couple books I've read) that if you have 2 different staple foods, (suggested a basic staple pellet plus a "colour enhancing" food) the goldies are less prong to problems. I am not sure how true this is ..... I think adding veggies & occassional live food is prob more important.

Since your goldfish is already having problem with swimbladder, lots of veggies (daily) is in order. Also, for chronic swimbladder problem, a higher temperature is said to help, something in the 75F (23C or so) range.

"Coloured rocks" isn't really good for plants except stem plants & things like Java ferns that are epiphetic (sp? I mean grows on surfaces). These plants are not fussy about the depth of the gravel. Once you get into the more demanding rooted plants, you will need some kind of soil as your substrate. <Although you don't have to tear out the tank - I've seen pics of a tank with plants set into little pots filled with soil.> So, this part really depends on how you want the tank to look .... some like a really natural look, others have geometric arrangements/layers of different rocks, gravels ..... etc.

 

[TomK2]

My wife is the goldie keeper, and she says that Goldies get constipated and get swim bladder problems from a flake only diet. Constant pecking at the surface for food is not ideal, so she prefers sinking food. They eat it as it sinks, and then pick it off the gravel. On the web, there are many recipes for home made foods that she swears are way better than store bought. Goldfish are so striking, that not a lot of decoration is needed to make a tank look good. One plant or ornament in the center with fancy goldies swimming around is nice.(the goldies are the real decorations) Around here, petsmart is the best place for goldfish. Overlook the feeder tank at petsmart, and the rest of the goldie tanks are great.

 

[pirateshake]

I keep gold fish and have been doing so for a good amount of time. Everyone has valid points but its really all up to your taste. I just switched from a 29gallon tank with natural color gravel about 1/4 inch in size, my goldies would pick up a few at a time with food eat the food and spit out the gravel. It worried me the first few times i saw it after a while i got used to it. As for plants. my goldies have eaten everything ive tried. Planted bulbs that grew, hornswort cypts swords ferns moss balls. They pick at my anubus but even with there abuse it still is alive, thankfully. I keep 1 common and 1 comet goldfish. Fancy goldfish are less likely to eat plants but they still can it all depends on the fish.
I did not see if u put which type of goldfish u will be keeping..maybe i missed it?
I have 4 corycats with my goldies, oddly enough they all school together and i think make perfect tank mates. My goldfish are nearly 5 1/2 inchs they could easily suck up the corys but they dont. Still is a possibly but i think there all friends.. lol
I also had a SAE and i do not recomand them or a flying fox as a tank mate. They eat every type of algae ive ever had including diatoms but they get agressive imo and attack the fish.
Now my new tank i just rehome'd everyone in.. Its a 55gallon glass tank. Fluval 305 filter and a Penguin biowheel dual. I dont rememeber the model number but i can get it if ud like to know. No heater, No bubbler. But u can use a bubbler if u like the look. I am using floriate black sand in this tank. The first time i saw them suck up the sand i was like oh no bad idea but they spit it back out and it almost looks like the fish are smoking. kinda funny i think. The only good part about the sand is fish naturally have some around and it cleans out there digestive track. But still it dosnt hurt them at all.
So if you want to do plants try it out and see. But dont buy to many they most likely will end up being a salad bar : )
I also feed flake food. Common goldfish arnt as prone to swimbladder issues as fancys are. If you get fancys be sure to either feed pellet sinkingfood. Or you can get a cup of water and put the food in there first stir untill it sinks then add.
Goodluck with your project, be sure to post pics and let us know how its going

 

[Alaris]

Pirate, check the date. This was over 3 years ago.....