Need advice regarding baby clown loaches

[bosk1]

I posted in another thread about the great deal I recently got on some clown loaches ($4.99 apiece!). They are fairly small, about 1 1/2 inches. I introduced them to the tank on Sunday. I had one clown loach already in the tank that is about 2 1/2 inches. He is very feisty and holds his own at feeding time with all the other fish in the tank. After devouring whatever food is at the surface, the rest of my fish will immediately check the bottom of the tank, and will root around for the wafers I drop in for my bottom fish. The blue gourami is the biggest and easily the most aggressive fish in the tank. She is about 4-5 times the mass of that loach. Yet, when she goes after the wafers, the loach will go after her and chase her away. He isn't afraid of anything! (this is very entertainint to watch. The result is that the blue gourami appears to get "mad," and takes it out on the gold gourami by chasing her around for no other apparent reason)

Now that I have added three smaller loaches, the bigger one chases them away also when it is time for feeding. Even though I break the wafers up and spread the pieces around the tank, they do not go off and forage on their own, but instead will follow the bigger loach around until he chases them off. My concern is this: How to I encourage these smaller loaches to forage for food on their own? They seem to be doing well in the new tank otherwise, but I want to make sure it stays that way. Do I need to temporarily isolate them and feed them separately? What should I do?

 

[malkore]

I've got a 75 cichlid tank, with a few tiger barbs I have had issues catching, and both clown and yo-yo loaches.
Like you, I have 2 larger clowns (3") and 2 juvies about 1-1.5".

I've had the yo-yo's the longest, and when I added the first 2 clowns, they were very social, so I've never really had a problem.

Are the juvies still showing good coloration? Clowns are pretty good about showing any signs of stress by dropping color and appearing very pale. If they aren't showing signs of stress, I'd assume they are getting enough to eat.

How long have they been together? If its only been a week or two, its possible the adult will still become more social once the juvies get a little bigger. Clowns aren't too interested in a pecking order (unlike my tiger barbs) so he's really only interested in filling his gut at feeding time.

if they juvies do look a little pale, just reserve a wafer just for them, toward the end of the other fish's feeding frenzy. Between that wafer and the food they'll scavenge from the substrate, they should be able to hold their own.

 

[TCTFish]

The smaller loaches may be taking an easy approach at obtaining food...by following the big guy and eating what he (or she) stirs up. They're going to get chased anyway so might as well get something for the effort. That's just a guess. Let them work out their differences. Chasing says alot for an animal that is limited in communications. So long as it doesn't become violent...it's ok, natural, and even healthy to some degree.

In general, clown loaches are schooling fish, but the loner is use to being alone and seems to like that. Once they get bigger the even bigger guy may end up just accepting them. Right now, he's king loach, but rarely do they actually injure each other. If you feed the fish properly, they'll get their share. If any of them start to thin out, add a little more food.

Frozen blood worms would be a nice treat and a sure way for all of them to get food. Thaw out a cube and swoosh it in the tank. Bloodworms everywhere. I would advise to only do that a few times a week. Bloodworms can be a heavy waste food item...and not good to feed a lot to many fish. It's a known cause of constipation. Very high in protein. Make sure the gouramis get their share of veggies to keep their digestive system running without clogs.

HTH

 

[bosk1]

Are the juvies still showing good coloration? Clowns are pretty good about showing any signs of stress by dropping color and appearing very pale. If they aren't showing signs of stress, I'd assume they are getting enough to eat.

Yes, they still have pretty good coloration. There is a fair amount of chasing going on, but the juvies are maintaining good color, and end up coming right back to the larger loach after he chases them away, so I don't think they are being unduly stressed.

How long have they been together? If its only been a week or two, its possible the adult will still become more social once the juvies get a little bigger. Clowns aren't too interested in a pecking order (unlike my tiger barbs) so he's really only interested in filling his gut at feeding time.

They have only been together since Sunday afternoon. From what I have read, I would be in agreement that these fish generally do not concern themselves with pecking order. But from observing my fish, it sure seems like the larger loachis in fact trying to establish dominance. Even when there is no food present, he will chase the smaller juvies around and around the tank. But it does not appear to be outright agression because they flock right back to him afterward, and he doesn't appear to bite at them. And as posted above, they do not look like they are showing any outward signs of stress.

if they juvies do look a little pale, just reserve a wafer just for them, toward the end of the other fish's feeding frenzy. Between that wafer and the food they'll scavenge from the substrate, they should be able to hold their own.

I am not really sure how much food is remaining in the substrate after feeding, but you are probably right. But as for reserving a wafer for them, the blue gourami and the larger loach appear that they would just continue eating until they ate themselves to death if I put in more food.

The smaller loaches may be taking an easy approach at obtaining food...by following the big guy and eating what he (or she) stirs up. They're going to get chased anyway so might as well get something for the effort. That's just a guess. Let them work out their differences. Chasing says alot for an animal that is limited in communications. So long as it doesn't become violent...it's ok, natural, and even healthy to some degree.

Yeah, I agree. They may very well be getting enough. I just haven't seem them actually eating. When I add flakes, frozen brine, or freeze dried blood worms, it doesn't look like any falls to the bottom before the gouramis and the roseline shark get it. And as to the wafers, they are pretty hard and don't disintegrate. The larger loach will bite off a little piece at a time, and it doesn't appear to fragment such that there would be anything for the smaller loaches to get. But I'm sure they are getting something.

In general, clown loaches are schooling fish, but the loner is use to being alone and seems to like that. Once they get bigger the even bigger guy may end up just accepting them. Right now, he's king loach, but rarely do they actually injure each other. If you feed the fish properly, they'll get their share. If any of them start to thin out, add a little more food.

Yeah, as I posted above, it seems to be mostly harmless dominance behavior, from all appearances. I'm sure they will get along fine after being together for a while. I was just concerned about making sure the smaller ones live long enough for that to happen.

Frozen blood worms would be a nice treat and a sure way for all of them to get food. Thaw out a cube and swoosh it in the tank. Bloodworms everywhere. I would advise to only do that a few times a week. Bloodworms can be a heavy waste food item...and not good to feed a lot to many fish. It's a known cause of constipation. Very high in protein. Make sure the gouramis get their share of veggies to keep their digestive system running without clogs.

I'll have to try the frozen worms. I have some freeze dried blood worms, but those don't sink. And I try to keep the diet somewhat varied. The flakes and wafers have a high veggie content, and I have a second type of wafer that is all algae. I haven't yet put in any fresh vegetables, but since I have a pleco who would undoubtedly love some fresh zuc or cucumber, I plan on trying that soon.

Anyhow, thanks everyone. It doesn't look like I should be overly concerned. But I'll keep watching them to make sure.

 

[TCTFish]

When you do go get fresh veggies for the fish, try to get 'organic' (free of pesticidal residues).

 

[bosk1]

Good tip. I wouldn't have thought of that.

Last night, all three of the new loaches were out foraging for food somewhat, so I guess I won't worry too much about them. There was still a fair amount of chasing going on (and the larger loach was making his clicking sound at times while chasing), but none of the fish looked any worse for wear.

 

[jibboo]

I wouldn't worry about them too much. I have a larger yo-yo and it's been chasing the smaller 2 yo-yos for a 2 years now with now negative effect.

 

[bosk1]

Update: all loaches seem active and happy.

 

[crazycat]

maybe they are just playing? i found my clown loaches used to chase each other all over the place when they were little--for fun. just a thought...

 

[bosk1]

Yeah, now one of the smaller clown loaches has taken to chasing the other two small ones, and will takes turns chasing/being chased with the big one when there is food present. He's definitely a feisty little guy.