New Tank/Bio-Spira/Ammonia Spike 8.0ppm = Normal?

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Hacienda Heights, CA
Hi everyone,

If there are any questions on how I got to this point, here's the scoop in a different thread: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=64070

Basically I setup a Brackish Water 40G with a SG of 1.002-3. I added the Bio-Spira and (4) 2" Archerfish. I have an Aquaclear 110(500gph) that features Bio-Media and a Sand Substrate.

Now it's only been 1 hour and 45 minutes since I put the fish and bio-spira in but these are my readings:

NH3 - 8.0ppm
NO2 - 0ppm
NO3 - 0ppm

Correct me if I'm wrong but Ammonia at 8.0 sounds like it should really mess things up right? What should I do about this?
 
I hope you have about 80 gallons of PWC water preped..
that NH3 number is horribly leathal!
I would give it a 100% water change NOW.
 
Just called around to see what 2 of the the more reputable LFS in So Cal had to say about it. Both of them told me that I need to give it time for the Bio-Spira to level it out and as long as the fish don't seem to be distressed (which they aren't at all), then it should be ok.

I'm going to start to whip up a batch of low SG water to do a change if I need to and keep a very close eye on them. I should have been more prepared, I'm afraid moving them around too much will stress them.

Here's something interesting and possibly an issue:

I kept the water they came in just in from the LFS. I tested the water just now to find that the water they came from has the same reading of 8.0ppm. Why would the water from the LFS and the water from my tank have the exact same reading?

I'm testing some Tap Water, just to see what happens.

I'm using a Aquarium Pharmaceticals Saltwater Testkit.
 
hmm.. sounds like your NH3 kit is off..
8 seems rediculusly high and not have dead fish in a very short amount of time.. (regardless of what your LFS happens to think IMHO)
that amound of ammonia would burn the gills of the fish up in no time flat.. they would sufficate..
I would re-read the instructions that came with the kit to make sure I was performing the test correctly.. then if at all possible get a second testkits oppinon as soon as possible.. like the LFS's that seem to think that the bio-speria will take care of this..
 
Greenmaji,

I so don't question you about the ammonia level being super toxic. I mean, it's giving the max reading for the testkit. I'm not trusting my test at all. I'll experiment with it more right now and see if I can get a buddy over here with a different kit ASAP.

Thank you. Wish me luck... I so need it!
 
NH3 is still showing pretty high... maybe getting a little lighter. The NO2 still looks around 0ppm but might be turning a little more towards 0.25ppm.

I'm not sure I'm going to use this Aquarium Pharm test kit any more until my SG is around 1.010. Since my SG is almost freshwater I should probably invest in a FW kit.
 
yea.. getting a FW testkits results would be helpfull..
wich bio-spera did you use? the SW or FW type?
ohh.. and yes.. Good luck .. you really do need it..
 
I used freshwater Bio-Spira because my SG is low. I am questioning if maybe the salt killed the bacteria. I'll check my NH3 in the morning and if it hasn't been cut back I'll go buy some Marine Bio-spira and hope that works.

NH3 looks like it may be between 4.0-8.0
NO2 seems like it's between 0-0.25
 
Ok, it's been 18 hours. My fish seem to be ok, they're all still here and some of them started to display typical hunting behavior.

NH3 - approx 4.0ppm
NO2 - approx 0.50ppm

Should I be using Ammo Lock? I heard that it could give false test readings but I'm using the Aqua Pharm SW Test kit with 2 bottles for the test so it should be ok right? I did use Aquarium Pharm Tap Water Conditioner to declorinate the water and break the Chloramine Bond but that should cause a false reading would it?

I'm gonna go pick up some SW Bio-spira and hopefully solve this.
 
About 7 hours ago I added Marine Biospira to my tank. Here are my Parameters:

NH3 - between 4.0-8.0ppm (increase)
NO2 - Between 2.0-5.0ppm (Huge Increase, more toward the 5.0ppm side)

So what does this mean about my cycle? should my Nitrite and Ammonia start going down now? Is it time for a water change or will I lose all my good bacteria?
 
you probably have a nessler based ammonia test kit, and your dechlorinator is reading ammonium as ammonia and giving you a false positive.

try AP's salycitate based ammonia test kit, which works on FW and SW, and isn't messed up by any dechlorinators.
 
malkore said:
you probably have a nessler based ammonia test kit, and your dechlorinator is reading ammonium as ammonia and giving you a false positive.

try AP's salycitate based ammonia test kit, which works on FW and SW, and isn't messed up by any dechlorinators.

Unfortunetly that's the test I'm using. Today's Results:

NH3 - 4.0+ppm
NO2 - 2.0 (down from 5.0)

Looks like my levels are dropping.
 
Salicylate testing for ammonia:

This analytical method is based upon the treatment of ammonia compounds in a seawater or freshwater sample with chlorine to produce monochloramine. The monochloramine is reacted with salicylate to form 5-aminosalicylate. Sodium nitroprusside acts as a catalyst for the oxidiation of 5-aminosalicylate to indosalicylate, a blue colored compound. The blue color is masked by the yellow color from excess reagent to give a final color of green. This color change is proportional to the amount of ammonia in the sample and can be determined using the indicator card.

Interference: (not a complete list, where interference levels are given they are for the Hach Co test, and might not appy to Aquarium Pharmaceuticals):

Extremely hard water (CaCo3 >1000ppm), and extremely high nitrite (>12ppm) and nitrate(>100ppm) levels can effect the test, as would high Iron, Calcium, Phosphate,Sulfate, Magnesium and Sulfide. Food particles will cause the test to turn green also.

So, if you have monochloramine in your water, it should turn color and detect the monochloramine? I have not seen this written, but it can be inferred. A way of testing your tap water for monochloramine!

Aquarium pharmaceuticals does not list the ingredients to the ammonia test, but many of the above ingredients are on the MSDS for the test. I believe it to be the same.



Nesslers Reagent:

Nesslers Reagent is Mercury Iodide in a Potassium Iodide and Potassium Hydroxide solution. KI + HgI2 or K2HgI4

In the presence of ammonia (NH3) Iodide is released which turns the solution brown. If the sample has been treated with Amquel, the Nesslers reagent will turn dark brown, invalidating the test. I believe Nessler tests are a one bottle test, while salicylate tests are two bottle tests.

Nitrite Testing:

Diazotization Method:

Nitrite ions react with sulfanilic acid to from an intermediate diazonium salt. This reacts with chromotropic acid to produce a red-orange complex directly proportional to the amount of nitrite present.

Another method uses the same sulfanilic acid, but instead of chromotropic acid the diazonium salt reacts with 1-naphthylamine sulfonic acid to form a different red-colored solution. This may be what is in the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals kit? Since the Nitrate test has a common pathway with the nitrite test, they may have chosen the second indicator to avoid confusion? (see Nitrate testing below)

Interferences: (not a complete list, where interference levels are given they are for the Hach Co test, and might not appy to Aquarium Pharmaceuticals)

Very high levels of nitrate (>100 ppm) since some of the abundant nitrate will convert to nitrite and register on the test. Ferric Ions, Ferrous Ions, Lead Ions, Mercurous Ions, Cupric ions.

Aquarium Pharmaceuticals does not list the ingredients to the nitrite test on the bottle or the instruction sheet, but sulfanilic acid is listed on the tests MSDS sheet, so I believe they are the same.


BTW- your saltwater nitrate test kit will not be accurate, it will read about twice as high in FW as it does in SW, and brackish water is way closer to FW than SW, I beleive. The above excerpt is from my webpage onthe topic at: http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0018.htm
Hope this helps. I think you need to do PWC's
 
PWC, PWC. PWC's won't hurt. When cycling, should do PWC's to help keep the levels down while the cycle continues.
 
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