newbie question

[robotcholi]

Hi all! I have been reading on this site for the past week and finally registered. From my initial impression you are all very very amicable folks. I have wish i know about this nice site sooner so i wouldn't have make so many mistakes in my first 20 gal tanks and causing my beloved fishes so many harms.
The 20 gal tank got me hook, and I just bought this 72 gal bowfront from All-Glass (http://www.all-glass.com/products/aquariums/bowfront.shtml#) to give my fishes more room. I don't know what filter is good for it so i wanted to ask you guys since you guys know so much about this hobby. I'm thinking of the Emperor 400 which rated up to 80 gal but i think it's inadaquate. What about the Fluval 404 and how does it works since it's cannister? Do you have one that you would recommend? Please help.
TIA guys.

 

[robotcholi]

ooopsie, forgot to mentio i'll be adding GOLDFISHES to the 72 gal tank and probably turn the 20 gal into tropical paradise hihihi

 

[tkos]

If you are going with goldfish in the 72 gallon then you need extra filtration. They are super messy fish with poor digestive systems that lead to dirty tanks. I would go with filtration rated for at least twice of your tank size, so somewhere around 150 gallons would be good. This probably means canisters are the best way to go. Canisters work well and generally everyone with larger tanks uses them. I unfortunatly haven't yet so I can't recommend a specific brand, though Fluval always seems to get good reviews.

Another option is to run a canister and a HOB. That way if one breaks down then you won't be in trouble. And the HOB is an easier way for adding things like carbon after you have medicated a tank.

 

[Guest]

Both Fluval and Filstar cannisters are on sale at
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/ right now. I like Eheim fitlers myself, but others use these and give very good reports. Tkos hit it right on, goldfish need lots of extra filtration.

 

[robotcholi]

adding things like carbon after you have medicated a tank.

can you explain to me more on this one tkos? i'm clueless. Is it good for when the fishes get sick? Thx tkos.

 

[Allivymar]

Carbon is used to absorb medication after one treats the tank for disease robotcholi. No need to have meds in the tank if you don't need em anymore.

And welcome to Aquariumadvice btw

 

[sumphead]

Hello and welcome to AA. I too have a 72 gallon bow that has since been converted to saltwater. However I have had many FW fish in before. Goldfish are indeed very messy. If budget is an issue a cheaper route would be two HOB filter like the emperor, or just as good IMO two penguin 330s. These you can find at petsmart for around $25 each. And two should provide adequate filtration.

As far as what Tkos wrote about carbon after medication. If for some reason your fish were to get sick and you had to medicate the tank, after medicating it is easy to add carbon to a HOB filter to remove leftover traces of medicine in the tank. (You would not run any carbon while medicating).

There is a media basket on the emperor and the penguin where you can put carbon or other media to aid in filtration and water quality.

HTH,
R-

 

[robotcholi]

thx corvuscorax but i saw at BigAl the Fluval 404 for $85 while drsfostersmith for $95 . I dont know about shipping charges to California though. Oh, so is the Fluval 404 good enough for my tank size then? TIA guys.

 

[ferret]

Don't shove the Emperor 400 aside. The box may say 80 gallon but proper maintenance it can easily run a 125 gallon tank by itself (By proper maintenance, I mean weekly water changes of 10-20%).

This again goes back to bioload though I don't think it matters here. A co-worker had a 125 gallon with one Emperor 400 on it. It contained 7 oscars of varying sizes, 2 of which were full grown. The tank was fine.

 

[robotcholi]

thx alli and reef!
actually i saw the Emperor 400 for $76 at Petsmart and Petco so it's not a good idea for me to buy 2 of them to filter. The Fluval 404 is only $85 at BigAl but i don't know if it is adaquate for what i'm doing. Is the filter media expensive and how often should i change it if i buy Fluval 404 system? Thx guys.

 

[robotcholi]

hmm... ferret got me to think over already Thx ferret.

 

[ferret]

All my tanks except for a 10 gallon all have various Biowheels. I've had nothing but success with them. I'm not saying don't research other products, just that a slightly higher price tag sometimes means slightly higher quality ;p

Go look at the petsmart filter shelves. Their topfin stuff and the whisper stuff costs on average $10-15 less than a Biowheel. But the Biowheel are all labelled to twice the capacity. Dinky Topfin 10 gallon filter for $15, or Penguin Mini Filter (20 gallon) for $22? I'd get the mini. (In fact, I did).

The whole big deal here is the biowheel. The only other HOB filter I would suggest would be Aquaclears. If it doesn't have some sort of sponge or biowheel for your bateria, don't get it.

 

[robotcholi]

yeah ferret, i like the BIO wheel too. I read the box description for it, sounds pretty neat! So in your opinion the emperor 400 is fine for keeping goldfishes in 72 gal tank with good fish keeping habbit? Thx for your help.

 

[ferret]

It depends on the number of goldfish, but if you don't dump like 20 goldfish in there, it'll be perfectly fine. Emperors can take a ton of punishment waste-wise.

I keep two goldfish in a 10 gallon with a Penguin Mini. Ammonia and Nitrite is 0 across the board, and I rarely see waste in the gravel. These guys are young still, under 4 inches, and will one day move to another tank, but you get the idea.

I'm going to assume you are talking about a variety of goldfish that its a length of 10 inches. I'd be perfectly comfortable with a single Emperor 400 and 5 goldfish in that tank. Others may disagree. Take care of your tank though, and it'll take care of your fish.

My 75 gallon has an Emperor 400 and a Penguin 330. The Penguin is mainly a backup (Highly suggested) and to provide water circulation on the other side of the tank.

 

[robotcholi]

ah i see

one thing i'm always confused though: when you guys talk about fish's length, do you measure the body or the body and the long tail together? thx

So in conclusion, the fluval 404 would be well adaquate and the Emperor 400 would be just adaquate for my needs? Does the Fluval have anything that is similiar to the function of the bio-wheel ? Thx a lot.

 

[Allivymar]

The Fluval doesn't, however, you CAN purchase just a Bio-Wheel; they do sell em separately. All my tanks run Bio-Wheels; I love em

 

[robotcholi]

thx for the replies guys

Allivymar, are you saying that I CAN hook the Bio-Wheel to the Fluval system? thx

 

[ferret]

No, you can't 'connect' it.

What a 'Bio wheel' system is, essentially, its literally a Penguin or Emperor, but without the filter part. I believe they have to be powered by a powerhead, not sure. They hang on the back of your tank like the others, but they're nothing but a spraybar and biowheels, no other filter media. Water goes in, splashes and flows through the biowheel, then back into the tank. This is a purely biological filtration method, and I'd highly suggest it if you don't get an actual Penguin or Emperor.

Also, I can't remember exactly, but I looked at the Fluval 404 in Petsmart once ;P I believe the box actually said 'up to 90 gallons' so if you're reading off the box, its not really that huge a gain over Emperor.

Either systems will be good, but you definately want to cover your biological filtration bases. Emperor will come with it, Fluval won't. If you get fluval, make sure you get something to go with it.

 

[Allivymar]

This is what I'm talking about:http://www.marineland.com/products/consumer/con_bwpro.asp

As ferret said, it provides additional biological filtration. It WILL connect to the Fluval however (it needs something to power the water moving thru it) although I'm not sure how. The folds in the wheel provide a large surface area for the nitrifying bacteria to colonise. That combined with the exposure to O2 means a large healthy nitrifying bacterial colony

 

[Allivymar]

Oh, and as for fish measurement...erm...I'm not sure. There doesn't seem to be any set rule and it confuses the heck outa me too LOL

For example, measuring neon tetras seems to include the tails; same seems to go for loaches. But when one measures angelfish, its usually just the body measurement thats given...