Newbie who screwed up..damage control

[nivluke18]

First please note that I know I screwed up and am trying to do damage control now.

I bought my first 50 gallon freshwater tank and relied on LFS to guide me before I did my own research (mistake one) and did not let my tank cycle before I added to many fish even though they were added somewhat slowly (mistake two) and now my tank is cycling with fish that should never have been added yet and some are stressed I am sure (mistake three) and adding additional tiger barbs against my better judgement before my tank cycled at the advice of the LFS beccause I orginally bought 3 and found out 7 is minimum to reduce aggression (mistake four).

I have ordered my own API testing kit (will be here in 2 days) as the testing I am having the LFS does not seem to be consistent (they use strips). I have been devoring several books I purchased and conducting online research to educate myself on how to care for these beautiful fish. I realize I should have done this first but I honestly thought if I told my LFS that I was new to this and didnt know what I was doing they would guide me correctly.

My tank is 4 weeks old and I have done weekly water changes/gravel vacumming until this past week as I was told by my LFS now that it is cycling I should not do it until it finishes. Online research (many hours of) has providing conflicting opinions. Some say you must complete your water changes/vacumming during the cycle and some say no.

So far my fish seem to be fine except the tiger barbs are still fighting with 7 in the tank. I originallly purchased 3 as my LFS told me they are a community fish and since they are a "schooling" fish they need at least 3. After a week some aggression was happening and one became injured (he is now in a hospital tank (2.7 gallons..I am cycling a 10gallon as we speak but that is going to take time) and I was advised to get my number up to at least 7. I informed them my tank has not cycled and I was worried about overload and was told they would be okay. I bought 5 more (3 smaller tigers and 2 green tigers). I have 7 in main tank now.

I cannot provide numbers on PH and amonia/nitrate yet as the LFS only tells me my nitrates are very high and amonia is high due to the cycle. They told me there is nothing I can do now but let nature take its course. They advised against tank cleaning and or water change to try and reduce. Online research stated some have used Prime every 48 hours to neutralize the nitrates/amonia which I started doing (first two doses I doubled and now every 2 days I am doing a single dose) and the fish seem to be more active and doing better.

Please note: I know clown loaches are scaless and I cant medicate my main tank (setting up ISO tank now) and I know they will need a 125 gallon min in a year or so. I bought my 55 gallon to start with the plan to purchase a 200 gallon after I became more seasoned. I am having a custom built stand/unit for this tank being built now and hope to have it by Jan 2014.

Here is the list of fish I have in my tank:

50 Gallon Fresh Water Tropical Tank
Only 2 live plants at this time-lots of plastic plants
Lots of hiding places
2 mini peppercorn Catfish
2 Dalmatian Mollies
5 Tiger barbs
2 Green tiger barbs
3 Clown loaches
2 Long finned Black Skirt Tetras
4 Platys
2 Long Finned Red Minor Tetras
Red finned shark
(23 Fish in Total)

Any advice for me from more seasoned tank owners would be appreciated. I am seeing aggression again with my 2 larger tiger barbs but dont want to add any more until the cycle is finished obviously. Not sure what to do with the barbs at this time and not sure the LFS will take them back as it has been over 2 weeks and they are not ill.

I feel guilty for not having done my research before stocking my tank but now just want to work my way through it with minimal damage to my poor fish.

 

[librarygirl]

Hi and welcome! Don't beat yourself up too badly; most of us have started by trusting the advice the store gave us. What matters is that now you know a little more and can get some help for your fish.

Unfortunately you are overstocked for a 50 gal, especially for a cycling tank. Until you can get the test kit, I'd start with two 50% water changes a few hours apart (just going on the presumption that ammonia levels are very high), don't forget to dechlorinate.
When was the last time you had the LFS test the water (even though they used strips) and at what level did they say ammonia was?

What dechlorinator are you using? Whatever you have on-hand should be fine for now but if you can get some PRime at some point it's one of the better ones out there. Then do a 50% water change per day until the test kit arrives. If you see fish acting oddly (clamped fins, gasping at the surface, red marks on them, etc) then do an extra water change that day as well. Once you get the test kit we can see what the levels are and adjust water changes accordingly. Contrary to popular belief, water changes will not harm the cycling process and with fish in the tank they are needed to keep them safe from the toxin levels in the water.

Long-term the stock wiil need to be adjusted a bit. The schooling/shoaling fish need more (tetras, corys, loaches). The barbs can be hard as they can be aggressive as you've seen. The loaches and shark will need a larger tank but you know that already, if they are small now it can work short-term until they start to grow. The platys and mollys are messy and have a high bioload so they're taking up some room too. In the meantime maybe try to return or find homes for the barbs and mollys, loaches and platys, which will ease up the load on the tank and the stress on the fish.

You might have seen them , but here are some links for you if you haven't:
I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice
Guide to Starting a Freshwater Aquarium - Aquarium Advice

 

[Mrs.h2012]

First please note that I know I screwed up and am trying to do damage control now.

I bought my first 50 gallon freshwater tank and relied on LFS to guide me before I did my own research (mistake one) and did not let my tank cycle before I added to many fish even though they were added somewhat slowly (mistake two) and now my tank is cycling with fish that should never have been added yet and some are stressed I am sure (mistake three) and adding additional tiger barbs against my better judgement before my tank cycled at the advice of the LFS beccause I orginally bought 3 and found out 7 is minimum to reduce aggression (mistake four).

I have ordered my own API testing kit (will be here in 2 days) as the testing I am having the LFS does not seem to be consistent (they use strips). I have been devoring several books I purchased and conducting online research to educate myself on how to care for these beautiful fish. I realize I should have done this first but I honestly thought if I told my LFS that I was new to this and didnt know what I was doing they would guide me correctly.

My tank is 4 weeks old and I have done weekly water changes/gravel vacumming until this past week as I was told by my LFS now that it is cycling I should not do it until it finishes. Online research (many hours of) has providing conflicting opinions. Some say you must complete your water changes/vacumming during the cycle and some say no.

So far my fish seem to be fine except the tiger barbs are still fighting with 7 in the tank. I originallly purchased 3 as my LFS told me they are a community fish and since they are a "schooling" fish they need at least 3. After a week some aggression was happening and one became injured (he is now in a hospital tank (2.7 gallons..I am cycling a 10gallon as we speak but that is going to take time) and I was advised to get my number up to at least 7. I informed them my tank has not cycled and I was worried about overload and was told they would be okay. I bought 5 more (3 smaller tigers and 2 green tigers). I have 7 in main tank now.

I cannot provide numbers on PH and amonia/nitrate yet as the LFS only tells me my nitrates are very high and amonia is high due to the cycle. They told me there is nothing I can do now but let nature take its course. They advised against tank cleaning and or water change to try and reduce. Online research stated some have used Prime every 48 hours to neutralize the nitrates/amonia which I started doing (first two doses I doubled and now every 2 days I am doing a single dose) and the fish seem to be more active and doing better.

Please note: I know clown loaches are scaless and I cant medicate my main tank (setting up ISO tank now) and I know they will need a 125 gallon min in a year or so. I bought my 55 gallon to start with the plan to purchase a 200 gallon after I became more seasoned. I am having a custom built stand/unit for this tank being built now and hope to have it by Jan 2014.

Here is the list of fish I have in my tank:

50 Gallon Fresh Water Tropical Tank
Only 2 live plants at this time-lots of plastic plants
Lots of hiding places
2 mini peppercorn Catfish
2 Dalmatian Mollies
5 Tiger barbs
2 Green tiger barbs
3 Clown loaches
2 Long finned Black Skirt Tetras
4 Platys
2 Long Finned Red Minor Tetras
Red finned shark
(23 Fish in Total)

Any advice for me from more seasoned tank owners would be appreciated. I am seeing aggression again with my 2 larger tiger barbs but dont want to add any more until the cycle is finished obviously. Not sure what to do with the barbs at this time and not sure the LFS will take them back as it has been over 2 weeks and they are not ill.

I feel guilty for not having done my research before stocking my tank but now just want to work my way through it with minimal damage to my poor fish.

As Librarygirl said you are overstocked. Is there anyway you can return some of these fish? If so I would return the clown loaches... Unfortunately they will eventually outgrow your tank. I would try and keep the platies and mollies as they have a bigger bioload. I've read the general rule of thumb for a fish in cycle is 1 fish for 10g. And as far as LFS telling you all that can be done is let nature take its course... That's total crap. It will be a lot of work, but daily water changes will help
Your fish greatly; doing a a water change helps get ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels down. Once your test kit arrives, this is basically all you need to know for a. Fish in cycle: anytime ammonia or nitrite get at or above .25ppm... Time for a water change! Ideally you want to keep nitrates at 20 or less. I've went through a fish in cycle myself, if you have any questions or need any advice, feel free to PM (private message) me anytime!

 

[nivluke18]

Thanks!!!

Thank you so much for your response and advice.

I didnt think the test strips at the LFS would provide an actual "level" of PH or Amonia so I didnt think to ask them. They just said they were both (Amonia and Nitrate) high.

I do have Prime and have been using that to dechlorinate my water during changes and then over the past 4 days to neutralize the nitrate and amonia during this cycling. I only use Prime.

I am dismayed to hear my tank is overcrowded now even after cycling. I asked the LFS if my fish load was getting too high and they felt it would be fine at this level. I honestly do not want to get rid of my clown loaches so maybe if I can get the store to take back (even without refund) the tiger barbs will that make the remaining load acceptable?

I will post results from my testing as soon as I get the API test kit. I had my water tested at the LFS every week since I started my tank and until this last go round my water was fine.

Feeding: I have been feeding a mix of flakes (Omega), shrimp pellets, alge sinking pellets, bloodworms. I read that skipping a feeding during high nitrate time might help and I skipped feeding them yesterday (which made me very nervous) and then fed them lightly today. I did overfeed possibly 3 times since I owned this tank (4 weeks ago) but have been very aware of how much I feed them over the past week. I was feeding bloodworms and omega flakes at the same time daily and wonder if I should not be doing that. Researching that now. I also heard the shrimp pellets if not consumed will raise nitrates so now am paranoid about using them.

Filter: I have a powerful (I think) filter for this 50 gallon. 400 gallons per hour Aqueon 2 cartridge filter that is ranked for up to a 90 gallon tank.

Aeration: I have a bubble wand across the back of the tank so I think they are getting enough circulation.

I turn off the lights completely at night to help with stress.

Will getting another filter help the overload issue? I have read that it might but worry it might be overkill.

Thanks again for helping out!

 

[Jbaygurl78745]

Since you are getting a bigger tank I'd try to take back mollys tiger barbs and platties. Mollys and platties are pooping machines.is the tank 50 or 55g? Maybe take back the cories to or up there numbers.

 

[Mrs.h2012]

Thank you so much for your response and advice.

I didnt think the test strips at the LFS would provide an actual "level" of PH or Amonia so I didnt think to ask them. They just said they were both (Amonia and Nitrate) high.

I do have Prime and have been using that to dechlorinate my water during changes and then over the past 4 days to neutralize the nitrate and amonia during this cycling. I only use Prime.

I am dismayed to hear my tank is overcrowded now even after cycling. I asked the LFS if my fish load was getting too high and they felt it would be fine at this level. I honestly do not want to get rid of my clown loaches so maybe if I can get the store to take back (even without refund) the tiger barbs will that make the remaining load acceptable?

I will post results from my testing as soon as I get the API test kit. I had my water tested at the LFS every week since I started my tank and until this last go round my water was fine.

Feeding: I have been feeding a mix of flakes (Omega), shrimp pellets, alge sinking pellets, bloodworms. I read that skipping a feeding during high nitrate time might help and I skipped feeding them yesterday (which made me very nervous) and then fed them lightly today. I did overfeed possibly 3 times since I owned this tank (4 weeks ago) but have been very aware of how much I feed them over the past week. I was feeding bloodworms and omega flakes at the same time daily and wonder if I should not be doing that. Researching that now. I also heard the shrimp pellets if not consumed will raise nitrates so now am paranoid about using them.

Filter: I have a powerful (I think) filter for this 50 gallon. 400 gallons per hour Aqueon 2 cartridge filter that is ranked for up to a 90 gallon tank.

Aeration: I have a bubble wand across the back of the tank so I think they are getting enough circulation.

I turn off the lights completely at night to help with stress.

Will getting another filter help the overload issue? I have read that it might but worry it might be overkill.

Thanks again for helping out!

I didn't see that you were getting a bigger tank, I'm sorry! Ok let me change my response... I gotta say I agree about taking the barbs, mollies and platies back. Until your cycled I would keep you Cory shoal at what it is now, once you cycle I would then up their numbers, and also up the tetras school up to atleast 5; again I would up the numbers AFTER you cycle. Again after you cycle, if you like the looks of tiger barbs but don't like their aggression and attitudes... See if LFS has access to black ruby barbs. I just got some a couple weeks ago and LOVE them! As juveniles they look a lot like tiger barbs, but as they color up they turn a more red color and have the black stripes. They are an active little fish, very entertaining to watch!

 

[nivluke18]

Thank you EVERYONE!

Thank to all of you for helping me through this.

1) I will start doing 50% water changes daily..logically this makes more sense than to not change the water / clean during a cycle. I am assuming you meant I should also do the gravel clean to remove muck increasing my nitrates.

2) I am going to call the LFS and see about returning my barbs. If I return them (7 total) will my load be okay to get through this cycle?

3) Even after my cycle I promise I will not be adding any fish as I realize my tank is at capacity even for a 50 gallon however if someone could offer suggestions about adding more cories due to schooling? Did I get that comment right Mrs. H?

Thank you all again so much!

 

[Mrs.h2012]

Thank to all of you for helping me through this.

1) I will start doing 50% water changes daily..logically this makes more sense than to not change the water / clean during a cycle. I am assuming you meant I should also do the gravel clean to remove muck increasing my nitrates.

2) I am going to call the LFS and see about returning my barbs. If I return them (7 total) will my load be okay to get through this cycle?

3) Even after my cycle I promise I will not be adding any fish as I realize my tank is at capacity even for a 50 gallon however if someone could offer suggestions about adding more cories due to schooling? Did I get that comment right Mrs. H?

Thank you all again so much!

Yes you did! Also as I said after you complete cycle more tetras should be added as they are a schooling fish and need groups of atleast 5.

 

[nivluke18]

Overcrowding - Load

Sorry to keep responding so quickly with more questions but the last one on my mind at the moment based on everyone's fantastic suggstions is my tank load. Here is the deal. I am in LOVE with my clown loaches (moe, larry, and curly) as they are so GOOFY I fell in love with them already and my 2 red minor tetras (Bert & Ernie) as they were my first fishes. (Remember I will have a 200 gallon within a year)

The Red finned shark is my son's and again would like to try and keep him. My son knows that as this shark ages he might get more aggressive and need to be moved to a different tank.

The tiger barbs (while beautiful and playful) are making this newbie nervous due to the aggression.

Any suggestions on which fish I should return to make the tank more compatible and decrease the load would be great based on my above comments. I know I cant have everything I want and the fishes health (emotional and physical need to come first) If I have to get rid of the clowns I will but....

 

[Jbaygurl78745]

You could keep the clowns since your are getting a bigger tank but I would also look into returning mollies and platties that will help lower your load as they are big pooping machines and with returning the barbs also you should be ok.

 

[Jbaygurl78745]

I had mollies once but they add to much to my Bio load. They are cool just big poopers lol

 

[Mrs.h2012]

Sorry to keep responding so quickly with more questions but the last one on my mind at the moment based on everyone's fantastic suggstions is my tank load. Here is the deal. I am in LOVE with my clown loaches (moe, larry, and curly) as they are so GOOFY I fell in love with them already and my 2 red minor tetras (Bert & Ernie) as they were my first fishes. (Remember I will have a 200 gallon within a year)

The Red finned shark is my son's and again would like to try and keep him. My son knows that as this shark ages he might get more aggressive and need to be moved to a different tank.

The tiger barbs (while beautiful and playful) are making this newbie nervous due to the aggression.

Any suggestions on which fish I should return to make the tank more compatible and decrease the load would be great based on my above comments. I know I cant have everything I want and the fishes health (emotional and physical need to come first) If I have to get rid of the clowns I will but....

I would return the barbs in all honesty. I think if you take the aggression from them away it may help things. My only concern with the clown loaches is their growth possibly being stunted. Hopefully someone else can chime in on this and better guide you than what I could as I haven't had clown loaches and don't know much about them. I think you are fine to keep your red
minor tetras. Just beware of aggression in them.. I had 6 and they were fine for two weeks then out of nowhere they started nipping and chasing everyone. Once your cycled I would up the red minors to a minimum of 6, I've read if you keep more than 6 that helps with aggression.

 

[thursyanna]

Sorry to keep responding so quickly with more questions but the last one on my mind at the moment based on everyone's fantastic suggstions is my tank load. Here is the deal. I am in LOVE with my clown loaches (moe, larry, and curly) as they are so GOOFY I fell in love with them already and my 2 red minor tetras (Bert & Ernie) as they were my first fishes. (Remember I will have a 200 gallon within a year)

The Red finned shark is my son's and again would like to try and keep him. My son knows that as this shark ages he might get more aggressive and need to be moved to a different tank.

The tiger barbs (while beautiful and playful) are making this newbie nervous due to the aggression.

Any suggestions on which fish I should return to make the tank more compatible and decrease the load would be great based on my above comments. I know I cant have everything I want and the fishes health (emotional and physical need to come first) If I have to get rid of the clowns I will but....

Just a suggestion, but, if your lfs won't take your fish back, you might try selling them on Craigslist. I've seen several people do that with success. Or, if you are really wanting to keep the fish, you might find a tank on there pretty cheap until you get your 200gal going.

 

[nivluke18]

Update & Thanks to all !

As suggested - I have returned my 2 Mollies and 4 Platties to the LFS (which they refunded..yeah) . I purchased my tiger barbs from 2 different LFS which are farther away from my home so I wont be able to return them for a few days (possibly tomorrow)

I will be doing a 50% water change with gravel vac tonight!

Current Fish Load is:

50 Gallon Fresh Water Tropical Tank
Only 2 live plants at this time
Lots of hiding places
2 mini peppercorn Catfish
5 Tiger barbs
2 Green tiger barbs
3 Clown loaches
2 Long finned Black Skirt Tetras
2 Long Finned Red Minor Tetras
Red finned shark
(17 Fish in Total)

 

[Mrs.h2012]

As suggested - I have returned my 2 Mollies and 4 Platties to the LFS (which they refunded..yeah) . I purchased my tiger barbs from 2 different LFS which are farther away from my home so I wont be able to return them for a few days (possibly tomorrow)

I will be doing a 50% water change with gravel vac tonight!

Current Fish Load is:

50 Gallon Fresh Water Tropical Tank
Only 2 live plants at this time
Lots of hiding places
2 mini peppercorn Catfish
5 Tiger barbs
2 Green tiger barbs
3 Clown loaches
2 Long finned Black Skirt Tetras
2 Long Finned Red Minor Tetras
Red finned shark
(17 Fish in Total)

Hopefully the other two stores will take the barbs back. Now being rid of the mollies and platies will take a good bit off your bioload. Everytime you do a water change do a good gravel vac, that gets rid of the poop which only adds to the ammonia (which of course you don't want). Do you happen to have a test kit, preferably a liquid one as strips are highly inaccurate.

 

[Wiggles24]

The clown loaches should be OK for a while in a 50 gallon as long as they are small IME they don't grow too fast

 

[librarygirl]

Good job on returning the fish. If you can return the barbs too that will help more too.

How large are the clowns now? Assuming they are still small you should have some time to upgrade. Keep up with the daily water changes until you get your test kit. When you do, post the results so we can see what we're dealing with.

Here's a link with some good info on clown loaches:
Clown Loach (Chromobotia macracanthus) — Loaches Online

 

[nivluke18]

My testing kit arrives today hopefully so I will post those results when I get them. The water change has seemed to help tremendously.

 

[Mrs.h2012]

My testing kit arrives today hopefully so I will post those results when I get them. The water change has seemed to help tremendously.

They always do! Just keep up with the water changed and hang in there! it may seem like it takes forever but you will get there!

 

[phin]

During your tank cycle, instead of changing water every day, you can dose with Prime, as you mentioned in the OP. A standard dose of prime 5ml/50gal, will detoxify up to 1.0ppm ammonia for 24 hours. If you keep your ammonia below 1.0ppm with water changes (instead of .25ppm) you can dose with Prime to keep your fish safe. multiple daily water changes on a 55 gallon tank to keep ammonia below .25ppm during the cycle could be maddening.

When nitrites start to take off you can dose Prime up to 5x the standard dose (5ml/10gal) to detoxify nitrite.

On a large tank you will go through a lot of prime, but it may save you a lot of time and effort from all those water changes, and you can be sure your fish are safe for 24hrs at a time.

In addition, the higher the level of ammonia present (up to a point) will increase the rate at which nitrosomonas will multiply (more "food" = more bacteria). likewise, sufficient levels of nitrite will allow for a faster completion of the cycle as more nitrite = more nitrobacter.