? on using hydrogen perioxide
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Christmasfish
Aquarium Advice Addict
I wouldn't suggest it if fish are present.
Hydrogen peroxide is not that broad an disinfectant ... it works on bacteria through oxidizing a certain two enzymes (names escaping hole in head). Staph for example has high amounts. AS does the liver on most animals. In a human, the amounts ingested by humans is minute and the damage of any amounts that are not neutralized by digestion is not worth notice. But in small animals? Especially one with such an open door to the interior via gills like fish?
Not a good idea at all....!
Plus what if that stupid enzyme I can't remember is, like, present in the slime coat ? That would be bogus!
I'd like to see that link too :? I want to see HOW that is supposed to work....
Hydrogen peroxide is not that broad an disinfectant ... it works on bacteria through oxidizing a certain two enzymes (names escaping hole in head). Staph for example has high amounts. AS does the liver on most animals. In a human, the amounts ingested by humans is minute and the damage of any amounts that are not neutralized by digestion is not worth notice. But in small animals? Especially one with such an open door to the interior via gills like fish?
Not a good idea at all....!
Plus what if that stupid enzyme I can't remember is, like, present in the slime coat ? That would be bogus!
I'd like to see that link too :? I want to see HOW that is supposed to work....
CiRXSi
Aquarium Advice Activist
I've used it to help scrub stubborn algae off decorations before. But outside of the tank. Then of course, a thorough rinsing before putting it back in the tank. I've done the same with a very small amount of bleach. Peroxide is a little less harsh, so try that first. Is this what you meant? If that board said to add it directly to the water in the tank, I'd like to see it too.
The reference was regarding a goldies in a pond & here is the statement made "Perxide will not kill your fish. A barley ball gets rid of algae, and when it is in the water, it gives off perxide. Or at least this is what pond people tell me. Like I said, 10 oz. per 1000 gallon. My pond is 900 gallon, so I put in 8 oz. The reason I only put in 8 oz. instead of 9, its packaged in 8 oz. bottles."
Christmasfish
Aquarium Advice Addict
Ah! A pond. Pondkeeping and koi have some slightly different rules/requirements anyway. But this is curious. Info is wanted for certain!
I never heard of that method..
But.. I am more archaic...simazine, chelated copper, or potassium permanganate are most familiar to me. Though chleated copper can stunt soome plants it never killed them.
When algae dies it consumes great amounts of the pond’s supply of dissolved oxygen. Killing all the algae at once can be disastrous if proper precautions are not taken. Aerate the pond heavily when using tat kind of stuff.
Never add hebicidal products at dusk or at night when oxygen levels are low.
Do not treat the pond and leave. Keep an eye on the fish during treatment and if the fish come to the surface as if gasping for air make an immediate water change to dilute the treatment!
As for statements about fish death.. malachite green doesn't kill fish usually..but it shortens their life span greatly, it causes sterility, it is tetragenic, carcinogenic. And often states FOR ORNAMENTAL FISH. To avoid the chance of a huge study done on its effects. Fish are under some lax rules as long as they are not "livestock", ,and even then, things are liberal as long as it keeps them safe to eat. Methelyene blue can cause anemia.
How many gallons are required for this treatment? And all algae is not equal..string algae is a tough cookie, but actually koi eat it and it contains beneficial enzymes adn bacteria for them. Pea soup is actually phytoplankton. Difernt rules. A UV sterlizer or diatom filter could clear it up....
A short smooth growth of algae on the walls of a pond used to be preferred to establish a nice balance and helps to keep the water clear. The algae and bacteria on the walls of the pond also act as a biofilter. Heh! We used to try to cultivate this growth, ,avoide overscarping the walls. We still used clarifiers or algaecides when necessary to keep the water clear so sunlight can penetrate and grow this smooth algae. The string algae can grow into long filaments if the pond is out of balance with too much sun and waste products. Actuall, string algae will remove fish waste when the biofilter is not functioning properly. Remove excessive growth by hand and continue following above guidelines. Springtime often causes a pond to be unbalanced. And that is when aeronomas are most likely to strike The aquatic plants and microorganisms have been dormant all winter and the warming season allows the algae to flourish. A pond overcrowded with fish will take longer to balance.
I can't see peroxide being the reason it is suggested. Oxidation cannot be a good idea when in water (gee! doncha remember Godzilla?
) and added to the decomposing dead plant material? what does it do to ph? surely a rotting bale of barely is going to decay and ferment (which may be the actual herbicide). That can add other gasses, it may attract arenomas bacteria, it may change ph,...etc.
where is real info on this stuff? How long has it been used safely? Any pond people here use it?
Personally, I would not try it in a tank..EVER. I'd ned more info before trusting it to a pond schedule.
I am gonna ask my kid's pet vet what the delio is if the local koi keepers or hatcheries use it....
If they haven't got jiggy with this product in the trout farms and other hatcheries it is either new..or they know something.
I never heard of that method..
But.. I am more archaic...simazine, chelated copper, or potassium permanganate are most familiar to me. Though chleated copper can stunt soome plants it never killed them.
When algae dies it consumes great amounts of the pond’s supply of dissolved oxygen. Killing all the algae at once can be disastrous if proper precautions are not taken. Aerate the pond heavily when using tat kind of stuff.
Never add hebicidal products at dusk or at night when oxygen levels are low.
Do not treat the pond and leave. Keep an eye on the fish during treatment and if the fish come to the surface as if gasping for air make an immediate water change to dilute the treatment!
As for statements about fish death.. malachite green doesn't kill fish usually..but it shortens their life span greatly, it causes sterility, it is tetragenic, carcinogenic. And often states FOR ORNAMENTAL FISH. To avoid the chance of a huge study done on its effects. Fish are under some lax rules as long as they are not "livestock", ,and even then, things are liberal as long as it keeps them safe to eat. Methelyene blue can cause anemia.
How many gallons are required for this treatment? And all algae is not equal..string algae is a tough cookie, but actually koi eat it and it contains beneficial enzymes adn bacteria for them. Pea soup is actually phytoplankton. Difernt rules. A UV sterlizer or diatom filter could clear it up....
A short smooth growth of algae on the walls of a pond used to be preferred to establish a nice balance and helps to keep the water clear. The algae and bacteria on the walls of the pond also act as a biofilter. Heh! We used to try to cultivate this growth, ,avoide overscarping the walls. We still used clarifiers or algaecides when necessary to keep the water clear so sunlight can penetrate and grow this smooth algae. The string algae can grow into long filaments if the pond is out of balance with too much sun and waste products. Actuall, string algae will remove fish waste when the biofilter is not functioning properly. Remove excessive growth by hand and continue following above guidelines. Springtime often causes a pond to be unbalanced. And that is when aeronomas are most likely to strike The aquatic plants and microorganisms have been dormant all winter and the warming season allows the algae to flourish. A pond overcrowded with fish will take longer to balance.
I can't see peroxide being the reason it is suggested. Oxidation cannot be a good idea when in water (gee! doncha remember Godzilla?
) and added to the decomposing dead plant material? what does it do to ph? surely a rotting bale of barely is going to decay and ferment (which may be the actual herbicide). That can add other gasses, it may attract arenomas bacteria, it may change ph,...etc.where is real info on this stuff? How long has it been used safely? Any pond people here use it?
Personally, I would not try it in a tank..EVER. I'd ned more info before trusting it to a pond schedule.
I am gonna ask my kid's pet vet what the delio is if the local koi keepers or hatcheries use it....
If they haven't got jiggy with this product in the trout farms and other hatcheries it is either new..or they know something.
jaowl said:
Hey I've heard of straw being used to combat algae before. I didn't know why though. Interesting...
I found these links via google
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/barley.htm
(I think this is what the above site meant to link to - link is broken...) http://www-saps.plantsci.cam.ac.uk/records/rec231.htm
Sorry to sidetrack, I guess this doesn't help re
eroxide and fish... unless you decide to put barley straw in your tank BTW some suggest a light siesta - http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=24494&start=0&postdays=&postorder=&highlight=
I guess ignore the last comment, for some reason I thought you were applying pond knowledge to tank?
Christmasfish
Aquarium Advice Addict
Heh! well the mini-blurb on the fishpond info site mentioned that you DO not add hydrogen peroxide. Nor is it even close. It says not harmful but not if affects the ph, acidity and nitrates of the water. If you end up changing teh water for those reasons as often as with algae ..I see little benefit other than clearer water (which a diatom filter/UV combo could have accomplished).
Now to link #2
add: Well the PDF on the process admits that they are not sure excactly WHAT straw does yet..but based on someof teh compounds so far tested..they hypothesize X-Y-Z. :? And that no effects to fish health are yet observed except cases of product misuse(hmmm certain were they?) but there are claims of improved gill function is from unknown fish farm(S) and hatcheries. Also it seems the practice is primarily in pretty good sized bodies of water and that surface area is of the importance.
Sounds like a holistic product..may (or may not)have a modest benefit blown up becuase it is "natural" and not a lot of scientific tests and study to pinpoint what it is , ,if something else can do it or if any dangers are present. Mention of de-oxygenation..but not if there is any change in common water parameters that need correction..... :?
Jurys out and I am the guy wanting more evidence and getting everyone mad becuase they are fed up and want to go home.
Now to link #2
add: Well the PDF on the process admits that they are not sure excactly WHAT straw does yet..but based on someof teh compounds so far tested..they hypothesize X-Y-Z. :? And that no effects to fish health are yet observed except cases of product misuse(hmmm certain were they?) but there are claims of improved gill function is from unknown fish farm(S) and hatcheries. Also it seems the practice is primarily in pretty good sized bodies of water and that surface area is of the importance.
Sounds like a holistic product..may (or may not)have a modest benefit blown up becuase it is "natural" and not a lot of scientific tests and study to pinpoint what it is , ,if something else can do it or if any dangers are present. Mention of de-oxygenation..but not if there is any change in common water parameters that need correction..... :?
Jurys out and I am the guy wanting more evidence and getting everyone mad becuase they are fed up and want to go home.
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