Oranda Wen Trim. Advice?

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BlueMoonLace

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Messages
16
My oranda's wen has grown so much you can barely see his eyes. He's eating fine and acting mostly normal but spends about 20% more time moping around the bottom than he used to. I know he needs a trim but the question is do I keep him in a separate tank while it heals? His tankmates (1 koi, 1 pleco, 1 veiltail) are friendly but i fear they will get nippy near his wounds. I also don't want him to get lonely if separated or die of depression. Any suggestions?
 
Hi! Welcome to AA!!! Can you please provide us with some more information? Tank size? Water parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & ph? Normal water change schedule? If you or an aquatic vet is going to do the wen trimming?

He honestly does not need to go into a seperate tank to heal but, your present stocking situation is very concerning. Can I ask why you have a koi in your aquarium? They honestly do not belong in home aquaria due to their huge water requirements. Most of us, myself included, can not afford an indoor pond to properly house them. Water quality would be my main concern in your fish being able to heal properly. Without pristine water conditions, he will be subject to infection and/or fungus. What type of pleco is it?

Some more information will help us to help you better! :)
 
Info: I have a 55 gallon tank where they all live. I'm so new I don't own or understand tools or tests for ammonia, nitrate and ph. I vaccuum the gravel and replace 1/4 of the water (conditioned, of course) every week at least. I have such a strange bunch because i got them when they were small and thought they'd be okay, and they were. I am already mulling over my options for when my koi grows (get him adopted, dig a pond...), but he's small enough to be comfortable for the time being. I have no idea about the pleco. I know it's not enough info but he's brown. I'll try to identify him another time. Under normal circumstances (as in every single day previous) they all get along. No nipping or chasing, they all get enough food without intervention.

UPDATE: I went on vacation and left my fish with a feeder cake thing that surpassed the time I was gone. But when I returned the food was gone... and so was part of my oranda! On the bright side his wen is trimmed, it was eaten around his eyes and the back/top. He can see now. I'd say less than a third of the whole wen is missing. His front fins were nibbled too!
He didn't seem to be in shock, swimmingly normally and blubbing in his usual patterns (I have watched a stressed fish die, I know what it looks like. he didn't act like that). I cleaned a 35 gal tank (no prev. disease, vinegar & lots of rinsing), got the water temp right, and moved him in alone. He seemed a little confused but not stressed. I had no gravel clean tonight but i gave him a moss ball and some ripped up, rinsed romaine lettuce. That and the bubbles from the filter should hopefully keep him happy through the night. I can only hope he makes it, I'll keep you posted.

On a final note, is there anything extra i should put in the water to help him heal and fend off infection? I'm sure there is but I don't know what it is.
 
Keep his water prisitine until he is completely healed. You really need to invest in a good liquid test kit such as the API fw master kit as soon as possible. Most lfs carry them as well as any of the big online retailers. His new tank is uncycled and there will be spikes in toxins that will prevent him from healing and/or make him sick and suseptible to infection. You will likely need to do daily water changes (based on your numbers) to keep things under control.

Unfortunately, its impossible to know who exactly the culprit was in eating your fish but the koi or the pleco are the most likely perpetrators. This needs to be addressed sooner rather than later before you suffer fish casualties. Please ask if you have any questions!
 
Alright well he made it through the night. That's a first for me as far as injured fish go! I hope to buy that test today it sounds truly worth it. As for the culprit, I believe it was a combination of hunger and stress. NEVER trusting multi-day feeders again! Once fed the tankmates showed no interest in cannibalism or any violent tendencies at all! They have been together a long time without incident. I will stay on my toes just in case.

As far as establishing a cycle sooner should I mix clean gravel with some from the main tank? Or perhaps swap one of the filter pads for one of the main tank's? Or would this be risky with the open wounds?
 
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I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other, but I've heard several stories of plecos eating the slime coat off of fancy goldfish. Your oranda will be his prime target being much slower than the koi. I would consider rehoming the pleco and the koi and getting yourself some more fancies. You can easily do 3 fancies in a 55, 4 if you really wanted to.

Anyhow, this is just advice. I always like to stress that. No one wants to feel like they are being slapped on the hand for what they are doing. We're just trying to make your experience as enjoyable as possible for both you and the fish.
 
If you have some extra cycled media from your 55 that you can move into the smaller tanks filter this will be the most helpful in getting the new tank established faster.
 
So I got the test kit and it is very useful! So far everything seems fine with the water conditions. And yet the wen has developed a mysterious black spot. It is important to note that he was orange and black in the past and all the black coloration faded. I regret that I don't have a working camera to share a picture of this development. Bottom line: could it be his color returning, or something more sinister?
 
Its honestly hard to say without a pic. I am very doubtful its color returning (black rarely ever returns) but more likely healing or an infection. How is he looking/acting? What are the exact numbers for his tank? Good job on getting a test kit, btw! :)
 
He's acting a lot better, he seems happy and active. The spot appeared a day or two ago, where I noted the pH and nitrites were rising. I've heard of black spot disease but it can't be... the only plant in there is his moss ball which is not new, there are no other fish with him either! The only thing that changed is I ran out of water conditioner and got a new bottle of a brand he's used to (tetra aqua). I'm getting worried, the loose white skin that is protecting the wounds and slowly shedding is getting more less prominent black spots spreading like mold or a spore.
Current #'s :pH 7.6, hpH 7.4< x <7.8 , ammonia 0.25< x <0.5, nitrite 5, nitrate 20< x <40.
 
Your tank numbers are dangerous right now. 5ppm nitrite can be lethal and I suspect this is the reason you are seeing black areas. You need to do a couple of big water changes to drop this below .25ppm. Cycling this tank is not a big concern right now- keeping his water pristine is or he will not heal and he will be subject to infection and fungus. Do you have aq salt (or another usuable salt)? Once your tank numbers are well under control, you can work on gradually increasing the salinity to .1% (approx 1tsp/g or 3.8grams/g). Premix the dose of salt in some tank water and add this gradually over 48hrs. When you do water changes (which should be daily or twice daily), only add back the salt you remove. So, for a 50% water change, add back 1/2 original dose predissolved in tank water along with the new water. Make sure you are temp matching and properly conditioning all new water. Please ask if you have questions!
 
How do I measure salinity and how gradually? Also my local fish store is closed for the day can I use kosher salt?
 
Kosher salt is fine. Just double check the ingredients to make sure sodium chloride (NaCl) is the only one listed. Your aiming for .1% salinity. If you have a small kitchen sclae, you measure it in grams (3.8 grams per gallon water) or use a kitchen teaspoon & measure 1 level tsp per gallon water. Put it in a closed container (something with lid) & fill with tank water. Shake it until all the salt is dissolved. Add this salt solution gradually over 48hrs. Its VERY important that you do water changes first to bring your numbers (mainly nitrite) under control (less .25ppm/as low as possible) BEFORE starting to add the salt solution. 1/2 the solution should be in the tank by 24hr mark, next 1/2 over next 24hrs. With future water changes (which may need to be done daily to keep things under control), only add back the salt you remove predissolved. So, for a 50%wc, add back 1/2 original dose predissolved in tank water. Please ask if you are unsure!
 
In the end I bought course sea salt, no iodine, no anti-caking stuff. After changing maybe 125% of the water the levels were safe and the fish was more than done with it, he hated me for bothering him that much! He was so happy when the filter came back on he was swimming all around and did a flip or two. scared the life out of me! Thinking of feeding him peas tomorrow to make sure he was just playing around and not a bladder thing. If everything checks out with the water tomorrow do I change it? or skip a day for the salt incorporation? Also if I have to change the water tomorrow do I replace the salt that was dumped immediately? And when everything heals up how slowly do I wean him off the salt and how?
 
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Check your parameters & see how everything looks. If you need to do more changes, do them. If you have already added some salt, just replace (predissolved) what you have removed with the new water. Weaning off of salt is pretty simple. Just dont add back any salt as you do future water changes and the salinity will gradually return to normal level. Keep us posted on how he/she is doing!
 
I'm sorry for not posting updates for so long. His wen and fins healed up just fine. A few days ago I noticed a wound by his tail and scheduled a vet appointment, it seemed time to get help. The wound became a minor concern when the vet noticed he had breathing issues. The test came back as Septicemia and his gills just kept bleeding. I lost him a few hours ago.

Thank you to everyone who helped, I've learned a lot. Maybe I can save the next one.
 
Thats wonderful that you found a vet who is able to help with aquatics! I am truly sorry that you lost him though :( :( :(

If we can be of any help, please let us know!
 
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