Overcrowding - A discussion on dispelling the myth

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

BrianNY

Aquarium Advice Addict
Joined
Sep 15, 2003
Messages
4,535
Location
NY
When does a tank become overstocked? The rule says 1 inch of fish per gallon but exactly who and what does this rule apply to?

There is a commercial trout hatchery not far from where I live. These trout are raised in such crowded conditions that they surely must be very stressed and uncomfortable. They are sorted by size and kept almost shoulder to shoulder (as if trout had shoulders), in huge concrete vats. They are fed copiously and grow quickly. The reason the trout don't poison themselves in their own waste has nothing to do with filtration. It has to do with the fact that their water is continually being replaced with fresh clean water.

One of the quirks we have as humans is that we tend to equate the comfort and needs of other species in human terms and understanding. Our fish want an attractive environment with lots space because if we were fish, that's what we would want. If this were really the case penguins would opt for Park Avenue condos rather than winter in Antarctica.

Another quirk we have is that we want things to be simple and care free. The ideal tank to most is one that requires as little labor as possible, yet is teaming with aquatic life. They want to add water solely to replace evaporation. Changing water becomes a burden and less than necessary because that's why we have filters. The filter hasn't been invented yet that will do away with changing water. If the end result of the N cycle is nitrates, than your filters are also polluting your tank.

At one point I kept 11 adult discus in a 55 gallon tank for several months. This broke every rule in the book. I got alot of criticism on this and other forums for even suggesting it could be done. However my discus didn't know I was breaking the rules. They were happy, healthy, pairing off and spawning. The reason I was able to this was changing water. I changed 50% twice a day. Yes, it was alot of work, but to me it was well worth it.

When is your tank overcrowded? IMO it depends mostly on how much water you're willing to change.
 
I agree with you Brian. This article in the Articles Section was posted to deal with this issue. Stocking Advice

When giving advice regarding this topic, it would be beneficial to mention the hard work involved. It is up to the individual to see it through.
 
those of us on the reef side of this know this accutely given the huge amount of bio diversity we pack into our tanks. water changes and removal of pollutants is paramount for a healthy tank.
 
The 1" per gal rule is really for the typical more or less closed system we have. If you want a totally closed system (no water change whatsoever, you'll prob need to decrease the bio-load even further.

The opposite extreme would be an open system - which is what the trout fishery is. You can pack in a lot of fish as long as your water turn over is enough. A neighbour of my inlaws diverted part of a creek into their pond, so they have a large flow through of water & is able to pack the koi in a rather small space.

By doing large & frequent water changes, we can emulate an open setup to a degree & over stock our tanks. Now if we can get an automatic water changer ......
 
i have to agree with bryan.

overstocking at times is like walking a razors edge. one misstep can result in serious damage, however, if all goes as planned the results can be great.
 
I overstock but not grossly. I do several water changes and am committed to putting in as much time, effort and money as necessary to make sure the fish are happy and healthy. I agree, overstocking is dependant on the amount you are willing to work. Of course in the case of that trout farm, that is going to far IMO. But they are commercial sellers so they don't care about the fish's stress levels.
 
jsoong said:
The 1" per gal Now if we can get an automatic water changer ......

lol.

a buddy of mine that runs a tank repair/cleaning service here in socal has an awesome setup for a tank he built. he has a built in the wall 500gl fw tank. the back half is in his garage. he built a custom piping setup that channels water into and out of his sump with the turn of a few knobs. i asked him how much it would cost to duplicate it and he basically told me he is going to patent/market and eventually sell it for large tank/sump setups.
 
I didn't overstock my aquarium--my livebearers did. As you can see in my sig, I have way too many fish according to "the rule," but between regular tank maintainance, good filtratinon, RO water, and live plants, I have fewer deaths now than when I had fewer fish.
 
I agree with Brian as well. I breed angels, and lately am growing out some adults in in a 55. Same sort of deal as the discus, a dozen+ adults in a 55. Lots of water changes, lots of filtration makes it work.
 
Thanks BrianNY!!!! I totally agree with you. Just becuase you don't follow the rule doesn't mean you can't have a very well stocked tank. I also believe that just becuase you may have a so called "overstocked" aquarium, it doesn't mean the fish are any less happy. My fish in my 10 gallon tank are happy and healthy... mostly becuase the tank is so small and it sits on my kitchen bar i can easily change 50% of the water on a daily basis!
 
Brilliant, mate....you should do some polishing on that and turn it into one of our premier articles....and one, I know, that will get a lot of reference/quoting.
 
Another thing I thing the 1 inch rule exists is for the beginners as well. As for me, it's non-existant in my head as I believe the same think as the person who started this thread, it depends on how much you want to change water. And for me, changing water is not a hassle, it's a hobby. And what is better in this hobby than having a good clean, healthy tank? HAPPY FISH!!!!!. Merry Christmas all.......
 
Lonewolfblue said:
it depends on how much you want to change water. And for me, changing water is not a hassle, it's a hobby. And what is better in this hobby than having a good clean, healthy tank? .

amen to that. :wink:
 
Another thing I thing the 1 inch rule exists is for the beginners as well. As for me, it's non-existant in my head as I believe the same think as the person who started this thread, it depends on how much you want to change water. And for me, changing water is not a hassle, it's a hobby. And what is better in this hobby than having a good clean, healthy tank? HAPPY FISH!!!!!. Merry Christmas all.......

Nicely said. It's just a guideline for beginners to go by. The more fish or depending on how messy they are=more water changes to keep the nitrates at safe levels.
 
I believe Brian visited the Cold Spring Harbor Fish Hatchery in Long Island, NY.
http://www.cshfha.org/
They offer excellent educational opportunities to local schools (K through college), and have a decent museum dedicated to local FW inverts, fish, reptiles, and amphibians - worth a visit if you're in the area.

BrianNY said:
These trout are raised in such crowded conditions that they surely must be very stressed and uncomfortable.
The fact that they grow quickly suggests otherwise - however, it's posssible that they are badly stressed, but that the hatchery has worked out an economically feasible balance between space constraints and fish losses. I think the key thing to remember here is that these fish are a saleable commodity to the hatchery - not pets.

BrianNY said:
One of the quirks we have as humans is that we tend to equate the comfort and needs of other species in human terms and understanding.
So true! I grapple with this every time I write a research animal protocol for my mouse project at work. It's not easy to measure distress in animals because they can't complain to us verbally. To complicate things further, animals perceive and experience their world in ways vastly different from humans. There's a scientific discipline called ethology that studies the way different species respond to the world around them - in their natural habitat, and in captivity.
Unlike the trout at the fish hatchery, our fish are our pets, and we go out of our way to make them comfortable. But it's not as easy as that, because how do we really know that a fish is comfortable - especially in an environment as artificial as an aquarium?

BrianNY said:
Our fish want an attractive environment with lots space because if we were fish, that's what we would want. If this were really the case penguins would opt for Park Avenue condos rather than winter in Antarctica.
If penguins could fly, I'm sure they WOULD be roosting on Park Ave! :lol:

BrianNY said:
The filter hasn't been invented yet that will do away with changing water.
I agree. How did people keep aquarium fish alive before the invention of the power filter...before the invention of electricity? Answer: water changes!
Only water changes remove nitrates and dissolved organic compounds. Simply adding water to keep up with evaporation results in a slow gradual buildup of these and other mineral contaminants.

BrianNY said:
When is your tank overcrowded? IMO it depends mostly on how much water you're willing to change.
I think this is a bit simplistic since overcrowding also depends largely on aggression. For example, how many breeding pairs of convicts could you keep in a 20 gal regardless of your water changing schedule?

Great topic for discussion, Brian. (y)
 
Back
Top Bottom