please don't scold me on this PH question

[tropicfishman]

ok i kow someone is gonna scold me on asking this since i should know this, but when doign a PH test, is it the lower the PH such as 6.6 or 6.8 thats more acidic or is it higher such as 7.2 or 7.4??? i should know this, and i did at one time, but i've gotteen use to using my test kit that goes by color comparison and i always go for a nuetral 7.0, anyone who can clear this up, your my hero lol

[bosk1]

7.0 is neutral. Lower is acidic. Higher is alkaline. No scolding necessary.

[tropicfishman]

ok ok ok please help me i think i just may have screwed up horribly, my ph has been 6.4 the last couple days since i addeda betta and black molly, its normally 7.0, so i went to buffer the PH, in order to get back to 7.0, should i have used the PH up or Down???????

[kaz]

will if you want to go ph higher number then its ph up if you want ph down lower number you want ph down
btw can i be the one to say doh lol just joking i think i was right though dont take my advice just a rookie

[An t-iasg]

Kaz is right; however, I would advise against using pH Up or Down to artifically manipulate your pH. These products usually cause the pH to bounce or rebound, and that is stressful to the fish. It's not surprising that your pH fell a bit after the addition of two new fish. The fish's wastes are acidic, and it is causing the pH to drop. Fish don't need a neutral pH of 7.0. They can adapt to a wide range. The key is a consistant pH. A fluctuating pH, like you may get by using the pH up or down products, will stress the fish. One of my betta tanks is 6.4 pH and the other is 7.2 pH and each betta is fine.

If you want to raise your pH a bit naturally, do a water change. You'll remove some of the acidity of the water, and add more of the buffers naturally present in the water that stabilizes the pH. That is one of the reasons that weekly partial water changes is important - to replenish your naturally-occuring pH buffers in the water that keep the pH stable.

[tropicfishman]

ok i've been up all night monitoring the tank, i can't loose my fish, there all i have, what really scared me is the fact i have 2 tiger barbs ( was 3 till one passed away 3 days ago ) a semi baby red tailed shark, a black molly and a female betta all living together in my 10 gallon, theres been no fighting, no territory problems, just the fact that the PH jumped like that, I know that the PH of my tap water has been a consistent 7.0 everytime i check it by itself. so just to be clear, if i want to go from 6.4 to 7.0 I use PH UP, and if I want to go from 70 to a 6.4 i use PH down, am I understanding that right? Thanks agian everyone, I swear I knew this and my brother has gotten me all confused because I was trying to explain how easy it was to test and that he should test his own water and he kept messing everything up and in turn i was thoroughly confused myself

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

a KH test kit could be helpful. If your KH is below 3degrees then your PH is more likely to fluctuate. you can use some crushed coral in a mesh bag added to the filter or hung in the tank to increase the hardness of your water (also increasing the PH safely) if you have extremely soft water. (how well does soap "foam up"? the more bubbles, the softer your water.)

I'm not sure on quantity, but try adding 1tbsp. to a mesh bag/nylon stockings and see what effect it has on the PH/KH.

My tap water is a consistant 7.0, but once it's added to the tank I have my doubts. I was reading 7.4 from my tank before I added Co2 (and that's with a lot of acidic wood in the tank).

[YuccaPatrol]

Add a piece of limestone if you want to buffer the pH up. Also, do more consistent regular water changes.

These things will make your tank pH STABLE. Adding pH UP or DOWN is only going to harm your fish when the pH fluctuates up and down all the time. Plus, it is just costing you a lot of money for a product that is not actually helping the fish.

[sherry]

also if you use limestone or coral to buffer your ph, think tiny amounts... I am using a tablespoon ful in a mesh bag to buffer a 35 gallon tank. I'd start with a teaspoon full. Put it in a mesh bag in your filter...

[bosk1]

Originally Posted by tropicfishman

...if i want to go from 6.4 to 7.0 I use PH UP, and if I want to go from 70 to a 6.4 i use PH down, am I understanding that right?

No. Although you are technically correct, you are asking the wrong question. Read An t-iasg's post. You do NOT want to alter your ph. Just do a water change and leave the ph alone.

[malkore]

Testing your tap water, after it has set out all night, is also a good idea. You need to know the pH of the tap water you're using, but it needs to be rested overnight so any CO2 can out gas.

CO2 in water will lower the pH, so you need ot let it exit so the pH can rise to its' normal level.
I too would suggest a Kh test kit. If you have 0 Kh, then your pH can easily bounce around.

If that's the case, some CC in the filter, a couple small limestone rocks, or use baking soda during a water change to raise Kh, and the pH will be stable, and probably sit at about 7.2

[tropicfishman]

so why is it that certainb fish have to havea certain PH, if it can fluctuate and not harm them, then is there really a point in testing it? lol is it me or do I ask way to many questions lol

[bosk1]

Some fish prefer a certain ph, especially for spawning, but can still thrive in "less than ideal" ph as long as the ph is stable. This goes somewhat against what some (especially those at your average lfs will tell you) believe is conventional knowledge, but has been borne out by experience of quite a few people here, and in at least one very good fishkeeping book I have read. Although "ideal" ph for most tropical fish is said to be 7.0, my natural ph out of the tap is 7.8. I have driftwood and peat most in my tank, which natually lowers it a little bit, but there are lots of others on this forum who have 7.8 ph or higher who do not lower it and do just fine. (I only use the peat because my lfs has a stupid return policy, and will not guarantee their fish if they consider ph less than ideal) Again, as far as MOST fish are concerned, stable is better than ideal. So you want to test your ph to make sure it is stable. If it regularly fluctuates all over the place, you should research to find out how to add a buffer to your water (I don't have experience in that area, so I can't really tell you what to do there). But the ph altering chemicals are notoriously bad because they are temporary, and will cause ph swings that can stress your fish more than less-than-ideal, stable ph.

Hopefully, that rather random bit of an explanation helped somewhat. There are quite a few good threads on the subject. I would recommend doing a search and reading some of them.

[kaz]

from what I learn it matters more having a ph consistantly level than it matters if it is to low or to high, when I started with fish my ph was about 7.5 and I want it lower, got some low ph etc but everyone told me not to worry as long as it is always that fish will adopt.

[tropicfishman]

I'm thinking that maybe since it isa 10 gallon , adding two new fish at once may have started a mini cycle. even though the same day i added the fish i also did a gravel sweeping about 2 hours prior, i did another one today to change some water and it was completely filthy. I am very notorious on how much my fish are fed btw, i'll eventully take it overboard and buy a digital scale to amek accurate amounts lol I've neer had ph problems liek this in the past, i've also never had asingle snail come in the past, but this is the tank thats gonna test on everything possible...i can feel it...worse yet, i still haven't been able to afford a nitrite, nitrate, ammonia and hardness test kits, theres only one company i trust with testing kits and thats aqua pharmacueticals, there ph test kit was awesome when i had tanks an its all i go by,m but thats me, so right now my local fish store is doing the other test until i save my pennies for the test kits, sadly i think my 29 gallon tank dreams are gonna have to wait a bit longer till i get all the test kits i need

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by bosk1

No. Although you are technically correct, you are asking the wrong question. Read An t-iasg's post. You do NOT want to alter your ph. Just do a water change and leave the ph alone.

I absolutely agree with this. Do not buffer the water using ph up or ph down. You can put it in, but 3 or 4 days later, it will bounce back where it was. I tried it when I first started, and just got tired of buying more bottles, and the fish were stressed. Now I just do water changes and that's all, weekly. If you really need to buffer it, a more natural way was stated in a previous post, a small limestone rock or a tablespoon of crushed coral in a mesh bag to bring it up. In my case, I wanted to bring it down, so I used 2 pieces of medium-sized driftwood. And my ph is holding very stable at around 7.2. My tap is 7.8. Other than those things, you shouldn't use chemicals to adjust your ph. It's a big NO-NO....

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by tropicfishman

so why is it that certainb fish have to havea certain PH, if it can fluctuate and not harm them, then is there really a point in testing it? lol is it me or do I ask way to many questions lol

Fish do not need to be in a certain ph. Stable is the key. One of the other guys in this forum had GBR's in a ph of 7.8, and it's recommended slightly acidic. But guess what. His ph is stable, and the fish are doing great. So don't worry about what fish sites say the ph needs to be. Your fish will be happier with a stable ph, and not one that's always moving because you are adding chemicals, which over time wear off and the ph bounces back.