PLEASE help!! I'm so frustrated :(

[bunebop]

Ok, This is going to be long, as most of my posts are, but you can get through it and give me some good advice i'll really apprieciate it.

So basically, I cannot get any new fish without them dying in my 55 gallon. The problems began quite a while ago when I had my red minor/red serpae tetras. I've heard them called both. I had 12 of them at one point and when I would watch to see what was picking on fish it was always one of them and I was later informed they can be "pack hunters". I gave half of them to a friend of mine who had a spare tank sitting around and put the other 1/2 in a spare tank I had by themselves. All was good it seemed. This was last year. Once I split them up they began to single out one particular red minor, he was moved back to the 55 alone... where he remains to this day. Back in December I accidently boiled the rest of my red tetras to death due to a malfuntioning heater and turned that tank into my betta tank / beat up tetra tank. All the fish in there are healthy/alive and kicking/ what have you.

Figuring the lone tetra would not pick on fish, I decided to try getting some new fish for my 55. About a month ago or so, maybe more, I got 8 cory cats to keep my lone surviving cory cat company. I figured if there was aggression still it would be spread out and could not kill them. I believe I got them on a Saturday or Sunday and by Wednesday all 8 of my cories had died. None of them looked at all beat up and so I turned to my water parameters. The water parameters were fine according to my tests and all the stores I tried, but when I bought another nitrate test it turned out that they were off the charts.

Fast forward a month or so and about 1000 water changes. The nirtites and ammonia remained at zero this entire time and I have the nitrate steady at 10-20 ppm, although for some reason I cannot get it to go below this. In nearly all the research I've done anything below 40 is safe for fish, although I realize 0 is preferred, I do not know why I can't get it to 0, so I decided to try to add some fish again.

I go to my LFS Sunday and picked up 2 Australian Rainbow fishies and 1 cory cat to see how he does. Once again, the cory seemed healthy, no visible problems, didn't see him get picked on, no torn fins etc, I go to shut off the light yesterday and notice him swimming funny. At this point one of the rainbow fish also noticed and began picking on him. I isolated him and he was dead by morning. Yesterday I also noticed 1 of the 2 rainbows had lost all color, his gills were red, and he was breathing heavily and not eating. He was also dead by morning. I've been frantically checking the water parameters and they've remained the same. Nitrite - 0, ammonia - 0, nitrate between 10 and 20. Yet I am continuously losing (new) fish. The last rainbow fish looks ok, but I guess we'll see if he/she makes it a week and then be happy. My pH is slightly high, it's 8.4 or so, but all the LFS's have the same high pH as me and the fish live there just fine. I don't think it's the LFS because my bettas have all been fine and they come out of the same tanks and I got another one Sunday and she's doing fine still too in my betta tank. I keep the temperature of both my tanks at 78* or so.

Now the fish store is POSITIVE that I have aggression in my tank. The 55 currently has:

1 clown pleco
3 pit bull plecos
1 cory cat
1 guppy in a breeders net
~6 zebra danios
~8 black skirt tetras
1 red minor tetra who I plan on giving to my friend who has the others next time I can catch him
and the 1 rainbow fish that I have left.

None of my fish have shown any signs of aggression. I have sat and watched for hours. The only aggression I saw was from the remaining rainbow fish towards the cory cat that was dying yesterday, and it's my understanding that fish will pick out the weak or sick one's anyway, so that wasn't too much of a shock to me.

I have tried every kind of fish imaginable in my 55 and nearly all have had the same result. I've also tried everything from feeding the old fish while I let out the new one's on the other side to redecorating the tank before putting the new one's in to confuse the old one's etc. I don't think the single red minor is killing everything like the LFS suggested as I've never seen him be agressive and I can't see him killing 8 cory cats alone.

Do any of you have any advice or suggestions or anything?? Could it be the black skirts?? I'm just so frustrated at this point. Thanks so much in advance. Sorry this was so long.

 

[jcarlilesiu]

First of all.. 0 nitrates arn't necessary. As fish produce waste or food goes uneaten.. you are going to have nitrates, which is acceptable under 40 ppm you are correct.

As for suggestion to your overall tank condition, i don't think it has anything to do with your water perameters. Especially since none of your existing fish are having problems and it seems like only your new fish are dying.

Be sure that you are acclimating the fish correctly. There is a good sticky i know of in the salt water "getting started" on acclimating fish, and the same basic principles hold true in freshwater.

I understand that the LFS that you go to you trust, however keep in mind that the fish in fish stores usually have just undergone shipping and are highly stressed. Maybe try a different store, see if you still have the same results.

 

[tmcgee]

well.. the only thing i can think of is that if your nitrate reading are true than the fish that are already in there and striving have just acclimated to the high water parameters so they live just fine but the new ones are more sensitive and cannot take the high nitrates. I believe that nitrates should be kept under 10 forsure. more like around 5ish. Sure the fish can live at 40 or less but that isn't ideal..

 

[BrianNY]

Nitrates are definitely NOT your problem bunebop. Nor do I think its aggression. IME some species stress easier than others. Corys fall into that category for me. I like to avoid buying fish that haven't had a chance to settle in at the lfs. Any fish that has had more than one environmental change too quickly can become stressed.

 

[bman]

In my opinion, I think your pH is too high at 8.4. Even though your lfs may have the same pH, the fish there do not stay permanently; plus the lfs will not tell you their water has a problem of high pH. I have read here that the fish will acclimate themselves to your tank, but that is quite a basic pH you have. That reading is at least ten times more basic than a pH of 7.4. If you were to, Hypothetically, stick your head in the tank and open your eyes, they would start burning and get very irritated due to pH. I don't think form the fishes point of view, that this is something they would prefer either.

 

[pwrflpills]

Man, what a crappy situation you've got there. In agreeance with others, all I can think of is the acclimation of new fish since you didn't mention how you do it, yet you sound like you know what you're doing so I'd be surprised if you were doing this wrong. I "get the fish in the tank" differently almost every time, but I always make sure to hang the bag in the tank for at least 15 minutes to equalize temperature. I even tried the drip method on the 2 GBR's I got this week. They look great and are doing fine so far!

Your pH is pretty freaking high, but I don't have an answer on how to get it down. I've always had 7.0. Lucky me.

As far as nitrate is concerned, I would most definitely strive to maintain in the 10-20 range. DO NOT try to get it to zero! That would mean that you've killed all the beneficial bacteria in your tank that makes the whole thing work (cycled) and by getting there and trying to maintain it, I can only imagine your exisiting fish would die too.

IME, I've had Red Serpae Tetras for about a year and they are not the greatest fish. Of all the fish I've had they had the highest mortality rate by far, which I don't know if it is due to the way they are bred or what. On top of that they were somewhat aggressive, but not to the point where they were causing any problems. I had them with 4 panda cories and there was never a problem, though. I highly recommend Von Rio Tetras ( I think also called flame tetras sometimes). They are similar (red), but so much more friendly and active!

 

[ace]

I don't think your water's the problem. How do you acclimate your new fish?

 

[Macrosill]

High PH and acclimation seems to be the problem. For the ph problem what substrate do you have in the tank? This may cause higher ph. I due the drip method to acclimate. Float the bag for 15 minutes or so, I usually do longer maybe upto 30. Then place the fish with the water from the bag in a clean container, if you use a larger container you may need to prop it up on an angle to keep the little water in there at a depth sufficient to support the fish . Next take notice how much water is in there. You will want to double it. Take some air tubing and tie a loose knot in one end. Anchor the other end in your display or QT tank. Take the knot side and apply suction to get the water to flow. Tighten the knot until you get about 2 or 3 drips/second. Let the tubing drip water into the container with the fish until the water volume doubles. When it reaches that amount take out half the volume and dump it. Let the water double again. This should take about an hour or 2. Once the volume has doubled the second time net the fish and place him in the tank, preferrable a qt tank. Never put lfs water in any of your tanks.

Good Luck,
Brian

Good Luck,
Brian

 

[Zagz]

Your nitrates aren't the problem IMO either. I don't believe it is necessary to keep nitrates under 10ppm. I have over 150 fish spread out between 10 tanks and not one tank has nitrates under 10 ppm, most of my tanks are 15-20 ppm. Your ph is high but if the fish are successfully surviving in friend's and the lfs's tanks that isn't likely a problem for them. I would agree with the trying another lfs and seeing if it is that store for you. It is the simplest solution and would answer that part of the question. Good luck.

 

[bunebop]

I acclimate the fish by floating the bag in the water and then letting the temps get to be the same and then adding water slowly to the bag over about 30-40 min usually.

I just have regular gravel substrate.

As for the pH, I know it's on the higher side, but like I said, it seems like everyone in my area has the same high pH and their fish are fine. I also don't know how to get it down w/o adding chemicals etc to my tank which seem like it can be really messy and just add confusion and more problems and I am trying to avoid doing that. It just seems like all the fish that I really want to live in my tank won't (ie corys, plecos, rainbowifsh, gourami's, etc)

The problem w/ switching LFS's is that this is the only LFS that is not like a Petsmart or another crappy store like that. Frankly, I don't trust their fish (petsmart and those chains etc, not my LFS), because I also used to work in one of them, and I've seen how the fish come in and how they're treated and how little the employees know about fish etc. The LFS I tend to go to (where i"ve been getting all the fish) gets their fish in on Wed and I always go on the weekend so they do have time to acclimate. I also always see the same fish there each time I go. They sell quite a bit but I've noticed that once they're out of those fish they replace them w/ a different kind. I tend to get the fish that I saw last time because they're not as stressed etc and this place takes really good care of their fish. There's one more fish store that seems good past the one I usually go to (which is already 45 min away, so this one's more like an hour or so) but I've seen some rather disturbing things in that store and changed my mind about buy fish there. The other nearest (45 min in the opposite direction)fish store is also really good, but outrageously expensive and also about an hour away.

Next time I get some fish I'll try the drip method. I know how it works and I've seen it before, so I can do that. I'll also look into that expensive store. Maybe they have sales (HAHA)

All the fish have been acclimated in the same way in all my tanks and i've gone from having 5 to having 2 right now because we're moving at some point and I just can't have them all up.

The fish that are in there are all healthy. I have not lost any fish in the 55 in a long time. It was definatly last year anyway. And prolly closer to last summer. Also the new fish I've gotten for my 12 gallon have all lived just fine. and like I said, I've stocked that one since December when I boiled the previous inhabitants and those fish came from the same LFS and out of the same tanks.

Some of the fish I have in the 55 gal were my fish fish close to 2 years ago (the zebra danios). I'm just so frustrated it's not even funny. Thanks so much for all your responses.

Sorry about the late responses, I just got home from work