Question when cycling tank

[Joe_D]

I'm cycling my tank.
i thought it was cycled so i started off with just two Zebra Danios
Hoover i discovered that the tank really was not cycled and I soon had rather high ammonia levels .
BTW the tank is fully planted.... with mainly Hornwort, Anacharis, and Dwarf Swords.


So, I added some "Tetra safe Start Plus"


Now a couple of weeks later, my ammonia level is now consistently zero..
However, my Nitrate level is now high. So, I assume the my cycle is on its way..
I just did about a 30% water change for the benefit of the Danios.
I used Seachem Prime
I assume that was a wise thing to do.

One thing I am really confused about the difference between Nitrate and Nitrite as it pertains to the cycle. I can only test for nitrates

BTW my Danios are doing just fine so far


EDIT.....
I just ordered a Nitrite test kit

 

[SteffeyJ]

Once ammonia goes up, a (good) bacteria comes and consumes it. Then from that, produces nitrIte. and then makes another (good) bacteria which consumes the nitrIte. And then that makes yet another (good) bacteria which consumes it and THEN you end up with nitrAte.
Which is not as toxic as the first 2.
(Ammonia & nitrIte) always keep them low!
NitrAte, however, you can have SOME.
And honestly want some, especially in a planted tank..
Because you're plants will help consume the NitrAte.
And along with water changes, once it gets high... (above like 40ppm or red red if you use api test) do a water change.
It is good to know how much nitrate your plants will help with... but I I lay ever found out by many tests over time lol..
Many floating plants help with nitrate levels as well..

Hope this helps a little bit!!
Best of luck!

 

[Joe_D]

So, if my ammonia level is now zero and if my nitrite level will also test zero, this means my tank is cycled.

Nitrates however is a separate issue..... correct?

 

[Aiken Drum]

If you are consistently seeing 0ppm ammonia + nitrite you are cycled for the fish you currently have. Ie you have enough bacteria to consume the waste of your 2 fish. You can safely add a small amount of fish. A 30% increase is typically safe, in your case add a fish.

Your bacteria will then need to grow and catch up to the increased bioload, so you might start seeing ammonia and nitrite again until your bacteria increase to cope. Again when you are consistently seeing 0ppm ammonia and nitrite you are cycled for the increased bioload you can add a little more.

Rinse and repeat until fully stocked.

Nitrate is the end result of your cycle and wont be removed by your cycle. Your plants will remove some, but generally your water changes remove nitrate. Typically do enough water changes to keep nitrate below 40ppm.

 

[Joe_D]

One more question.......


The Tetra Safe Start seemed to work very well and, I still have two 3.38 oz bottles of it..
Can I add a little Safe Start whenever adding more fish and if so, about how much would be prudent ?

 

[Aiken Drum]

You can add safestart whenever you add fish if you want. It won't hurt anything, may as well use up what you have bought. It may or may not be of any benefit either. These products are very hit and miss and if the contents arent stored, transported etc in suitable conditions it will start to die off. Ideal storage is 8c according to their website.

As for dosing, this should be on the bottle.

 

[Joe_D]

So.....if i were to add about 5 ml or so of Safe Start to every 10 gal when adding new fish, it might not help but, it will not do any harm either?

 

[Joe_D]

I just found this from Tetra concerning Safe Start...

"To start new aquariums, add entire bottle to aquariums up to 100 gallons. Aquarium is then ready for fish. Consult your retailer for advice on type and number of fish appropriate for your aquarium.

For healthy maintenance, add one teaspoon (5ml) for every 10 gallons when adding fish, after water changes or after replacing filter media."

 

[Aiken Drum]

So.....if i were to add about 5 ml or so of Safe Start to every 10 gal when adding new fish, it might not help but, it will not do any harm either?

Adding some may or may not help. Wont do any harm. Adding less than the prescribed dosage will have less chance of it being useful, but will make the bottle last longer.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I just found this from Tetra concerning Safe Start...

"To start new aquariums, add entire bottle to aquariums up to 100 gallons. Aquarium is then ready for fish. Consult your retailer for advice on type and number of fish appropriate for your aquarium.

For healthy maintenance, add one teaspoon (5ml) for every 10 gallons when adding fish, after water changes or after replacing filter media."

This is to get you to continue parting company with your money. Once cycled there is very little benefit to adding more at every water change.

If you slowly increase your bioload your cycle will quickly catch up, so again no real benefit to you, but you are spending money again.

How could you possibly test whether you are gaining any benefit? You would have to compare how quickly the bacteria grows comparing dosing or not dosing. This is impossible, you either do one or the other. You cant even compare two seperate tanks each treated differently as every cycle would progress differently even if you treat them exactly the same. The only thing you can do is judge a wide variety of peoples experience and this tends to lead to these products not doing very much. Some people will say it speeds up a cycle, but there is no way of knowing how fast it would have gone if they hadnt dosed.

 

[Joe_D]

OK...

"How could you possibly test whether you are gaining any benefit? You would have to compare how quickly the bacteria grows comparing dosing or not dosing"

Exactly.

So, since i already have two bottles of it, I will experiment with it.


First, I will add two fish with no added Safe Start
Then, after a little while, add two more fish and add a little Safe Start .
You should always add more fish gradually anyway.

The results should be interesting, one way or anther.

 

[SteffeyJ]

You NEED to see 'some' nitrAtes for your tank to be 'cycled'

I made an apparently common mistake when I first started back up with fish keeping and I took my water to a fish store to be tested.
They saw 0 ammonia
And 0 nitrIte.

And said water was 'fine'
Over the next 2 months, I lost about 9 or 10 fish in my 'fine' water.....

I finally got my own API Master test kit..
It is the most IMPORTANT tool, in my opinion...

My water continued to read hardly any nitrate.
Until I finally had my boyfriend come home with 2 HUGE (golf ball sized) mystery snails!!
And I honestly believe that they helped cycle my tank!
Because after about 2 weeks, I started to read nitrAte. And after water changes, etc. The ammonia and nitrite was reading lower and the nitrAte was finally regestering!!
PLUS the snails were mating!!!
And laying eggs eventually!!
So apparently they were doing just fine!! Lol!

Anyways, I had BOTH snails still! Up until recently, the female claimed up (I'm guessing to lay eggs) and she fell and shattered her shell... and I tried to 'fix' it but she passed before i was even able to try....
And she is VERY missed.
But I am thankful I have her babies to carry on
And I only have this because of her and her mate which helped to hump start my tank to begin with!!

Anyways, if you have been 'feeding' the tank, or have been dosing with ammonia and you STILL show 0 nitrAte... if you've EVER considered mystery snails, I would HIGHLY recommend them!!I absolutely LOVE mine!! And honestly think that they truly were the reason to FINALLY get my tank to cycle after trying for almost 4 months!!!
I only lost 2 fish after the 'cycle'

Once I read 0 (or barely any) ammonia AND nitrIte, I began to add fish, 3 at a time. With a month in between.
And I lost 2! One to swim bladder (had it when I got it!) And other was to a fungus (which again, had it when I got it)

So, in my case, mystery snails are 10 out of 10!!
The best!!
They do produce quite a bit of waste, so do not consider them as a 'decoration' you must consider them as another 'fish' because they are another quite large creature consuming and making waste in your tank. So they need to be accounted for.
But I think they are sooooo worth it!!
Even just one or two!
Mine have always been SUPER active and verrrrrrry fun to watch!! Even more so than some of my shy fish!!

Anyways, I really hope you get things sorted so that you can truly enjoy the hobby...
It really is rewarding, once you get things stable, anyways... lol.

Best of luck!!

 

[SteffeyJ]

Also, please please please do not forget to condition your water!!!
I dose with Prime with every water change!
And also use Prime any time I see any change in ammonia or nitrite!!
IT WORKS!!
I fully & truly believe in Prime.
It has helped me more than once!!
But please make sure to dechlorinate your water..

Have you tested for NitrAtes yet??
If you read 0, then your tank probably never really did cycle and you may be in the same position that I was in. (What i said in my previous post.)
However, if you do show a small amount of nitrAte, and 0 ammonia and 0 nitrIte, then you are right on track!!

But yes, add fish slowly!!
I've only ever done 3 at a time as my bacteria cannot handle more than that at a time. And I wait atleast a month, if not 2 before adding any more.

Hope this helps!
And hope you get your tank going in the right direction!!

 

[Joe_D]

I am now seeing somewhat high nitrate levels and are doing some water changes for the benefit of my two Danios . Ammonia level is now consistently zero

I also am also using Prime for water changes.

BTW, like I said, I just presently only have a Nitrate test but a Nitrite test will be derived this week so, i can be sure the tank is really cycled.
Like i previously said, i was initially a bit confused about the difference between Nitrates and Nitrites in a tank, and just got a Nitrate test

BTW this is only a 10 gallon (planted) tank due to space limitations as I now live in an apartment.
In the past like about 30 years ago, I has some rather large ( community ) tanks.
This was a time when when cycling and water changes were not something the general public were aware of. About the only thing we were told to check was water PH
There was not a wealth of info out there as we now have with the vast array of products.
You had to rely on mom and pop pet shop owners who only had an interest in selling you fish.
I even had to learn the hard way what fish are compatible in a community tank.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Nitrate isnt so much of an issue. Typically you want to keep it below 40ppm, but many, many people keep fish successfully in much higher nitrate levels than 40ppm.

What are you considering high nitrate? If its up at 40ppm with 2 small fish then there is something else contributing.

 

[Joe_D]

I might have been overfeeding the two Danios as they are quite voracious eaters. I got them initially as they are supposed to be very hardy fish for your first ones in a new tank but, I have grown to really like them. So, i will eventually get at least one more.


BTW, since it is just a 10 gallon tank, i am filling three gallon milk jugs with water treated with Prime... adding exactly 1ml of Prime ( measured with a measured droper) to each jug and letting them sit at least overnight before adding it to the tank during a change,

I do a water change about every three days for now until i have a handle on the nitrates.
I now realize that nitrate is not as toxic as Ammonia and Nitrite.... and Nitrate levels can be rather high with no ill effects but, I till l want to keep it under control .


EDIT...
I did a water change earlier today.
I just tested the water
Ammonia is still zero.
Nitrate has come down a little to be about between "20" and 40"

 

[Joe_D]

BTW, here is my present tank so far. Keep in mind that it is fairly recently planted. It has Hornwort. Anacharis.and Dwarf Sword.
It even has a few dwarf hair grass plants...... the only ones that survived their original planting.
I have always gone for a natural look

BTW, on the left side of the pic, there a "red Crypt".
When I first got it about three weeks ago, it only had two leafs and one more just barely starting to develop; Now look at it. It even has sprouted a runner that is sprouting a new plant.
So, I must be doing something right.

 

[Joe_D]

Please delete.... double post

 

[SteffeyJ]

I totally agree!!!!
When I set up my first tank (a 10 gallon as well)
My boyfriend was sooooo confused about me getting a master test kit!
Kept saying 'when I had my tank, I NEVER tested the water and NEVER did a water change, that's what the filter is for!!)
But he is a BULLHEADED Taurus.
And there is no way to tell him anything, If he doesnt already agreee!! Haha!!
But testing DOES matter!

And I think your tank looks GREAT by the way!!!!

I always end up adding stuff ALLLLLLL the time and now have moss floating around... the shrimp LOVE it. But it doesnt 'look' very good...
But oh well, I say if the critters are happy, then I am happy!! And I think you are off to a WONDERFUL start!!

Side note: did you use any root tabs for your rooted plants?? And do you dose a liquid fertilizer??

I've noticed my fert adds to my nitrate on my test kit..

And also, with your tank being planted, it means you can allow your nitrates a little higher because the plants will consume most of it. Especially if you end up getting floating plants... when I have floating plants, they suck EVERYTHING put of the water lol!! They're great!!
Same with moss in my shrimp tank, I've noticed!!!

And as long as your fish are doing okay, then I see no problems!! Just keep testing!!
And if you see ANY spike in ammonia or nitrIte, add a teeny bit extra of prime!!
I honestly feel that Prime is what got my original fish through my tank cycling (with the help of 2 HUGE mystery snails!) But after MONTHS AND MONTHS of waiting, was happy to have a cycled tank under 2 weeks! Thanks to the fish and snails! Which, I only just recently lost one of the snails, she fell out of tank trying to lay eggs, I believe... she is VERY missed!

But you're fish will tell you when they are stressed!!
And if they act abnormal, test the water. If it's off, add a little prime... do a partial water change if you're able...
Just keep trying!!!
Itll get there!!
&good luck!!

 

[Joe_D]

My cycle was screwed up... probably my fault as I originally did not have a Nitrite test, only a Nitrate test. I was originally confused about nitrite vs Nitrate

My Ammonia level rose again
Now I have a Nitrite test

So, I dumped another bottle of Tetra Safe Start in it last week to recycle it again.
Now, a week later, my ammonia level is zero. However my Nitrite lever is now very high.

I have two Zebra Danios in it which I got when I first thought my tank was cycled..
Will a water change at this point for the benefit of the Danios screw up my cycle again ?
I an seeing coffining info abut this on the net

BTW, I got Prime as a water conditioner.
How long should I wait after adding Prime to water should I add that water to the tank ?
Again, I get conflicting info about this. Some say just add Prime to the tank while others say it will screw up cycling.


This site seems be the only place where I get some good info.