Ram aggression

[afterwinter]

A few weeks ago I was looking for a centerpiece fish for my tank and was asking around my local fish stores for ideas. Against my better judgement I let my local fish store talk me into a single German Blue Ram for my tank. My tank is a 20 gallon long and currently houses: 7 pygmy cories, 9 harlequin rasbora, 1 nerite snail, and the female ram. Until just a few days ago I had two massive ghost shrimp but I suspect that she ate them; only surprising because I didn't think she was big enough yet.

She is beautiful, full of personality, and comes right up to my hand when I feed the tank. However, she also thinks the entire tank is her territory. She chases and pecks at the little cories while they are searching for food. I don't mind her telling off the rasboras because they would never share food otherwise. I was told that she would only do this if she had fry, which is why I only got her. So do I just happen to have an especially aggressive ram? Should I take her back to the store? I feel terrible taking a fish back to the store but I also don't want her to kill my cories. Some of them have grown from fry in my tank :/

 

[V227]

I wouldn't worry too much about the Cory Cats, they are fast swimmers and durable. Regarding cichlids, it's really not aggression unless damage occurs to others. In the wild, FW shrimps would likely be a natural food of most cichlids. IMO, your ram is the best, most interesting fish in your tank. Maybe the addition of a male ram would elevate your enthusiasm regarding those beautiful dwarfs.

 

[afterwinter]

Interesting; so you think she wouldn't become more aggressive with a mate in the tank? I would love to see a pair of them together but I would be worried they would actually attack the little catfish instead of just nipping at them if they had fry. She does seem to only chase and nip at meal time and ignores everyone the rest of the time.

 

[coralbandit]

Females can be as tough as males...
I would think she may settle in?
Cories are known to be too stupid for their own good and have been killed by breeding fish like rams and apsitos....
I also believe that cories are toxic besides being protected by their spines?
I know they excrete a toxin when stressed /fear that keeps large #'s of them from being shipped together..
The Poison of the Corydoras[edit]
Many species of Corydoras have a poisonous self-defence mechanism against being eaten by much larger fish. All Corys have very sharp fin spines and some seem to give off a low level toxic chemical into the water when frightened or highly stressed.[2] This toxin is believed to be only mildly irritating to people and only if the person is stressing and handling the Cory with their bare hands and is stung.[3] [4]
Self-Poisoning[edit]
A rare but recorded event is that at least some some species of Corys appear to be capable of releasing a poisonous mucus from its gills when alarmed which causes itself and other fish in confined volumes of water to rapidly die. Species believed to show this trait are C. adolfoi, C. arcuatus, C. melini, C. metae, C. panda, C. robineae', C. rabauti, C. atropersonatus, C. sterbai and C. trilineatus. This ability is poorly researched and other Corydoras species may be affected. [5][6]
Taken from ;
https://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Category:Corydoras

 

[V227]

I think that if you added a male German Blue, you likely would get hooked on cichlids. Their bark is far worse than their bite. It's been a while since I've kept Germans or Bolivians but my experience with them was good. I don't remember any of my dwarf rams killing any tankmate.

 

[kashif314]

I want to warn you it is not necessary that the male and female will pair up. It may work out or it may not. Its always good to put three four rams to spread the aggression. One ram certainly not a good idea. They like to live in numbers.

Rams will never spare any shrimp. If its big enough they will make him fit into mouth by attacking them. Same they will do with small snails.

German blue ram is by far the most beautiful fish and with very nice personality but as I said keeping them in numbers will work and you will enjoy there true bright colors.

You can try a male ram. Let's see how it goes. Give them many plants to live.

 

[afterwinter]

Hrm. Well now I am not sure what I should do. I definitely want my fish to be as happy as possible. I don't want the ram to be lonely. I typically research like crazy. I admit that she was an impulse buy so I had not thought out the best situation. Should I try adding a male and two other females and see if a pair forms? Or I am just asking for trouble? I don't want a pair to terrorize the tank. I will post a picture so you can get an idea of the setup.

On a side note my purple harlequin rasboras have been trying to spawn so that is kind of cool.

 

[V227]

Nice tank. Don't worry about stocking that many, your tank is not that large. One male and female is okay, or add one male and two additional females. Four total. Not a good idea to stock two males without a harem. Either way and to the point, your current ram more than likely won't cause any harm.

 

[kashif314]

Like I said no matter what yoy do your rams will be dominant fish in this tank. Even if they pair up still its in there nature to dominate. About impulse buy I can understand. No denying the beauty of this fish. Looking at your set up is you have some hiding spots which rams like. You just need to add some more plants if you can. According to my experience they do well with plants. Please let me know if your German blue ram started to eat already or not? With rams any small fish they will bully but according to me they won't continuesly chasing other fish. Mostly they are territorial to there own kind. I know what the stats say but I believe you can put three rams in your 20 gallon. Again choice is yours. They are beautiful but need warm water and also finicky and picky eaters.

Mine are not accepting anything than bloodworms so I give them bloodworms in morning and pellet food at night which they hardly eat and spit out mostly. Spitting out is there natural behavior too but mine love bloodworms most. If your ram is accepting flake or any other food I say keep them. Just try or you can return to store. I kept my rams with bigger fish like angels and they doing great. They do great with small fish like neons even even so I think they won't kill any of your fish. Probably your ram is angry because alone. I say put two more rams and see how it goes. Put two females and one male and you will be good most likely. I so far never seen rams killing any tank mate really.

 

[afterwinter]

Thanks Yeah, I definitely didn't mean for that many fish to stay in the tank. I just know that they need to choose their mate. What would be the best way to attempt a pair when you already have one ram? They definitely do have big personalities for little fish.

 

[afterwinter]

I have been lucky. The first few days I was nervous for her because she was actually very passive and the rasbora were eating all of the food. Now she pushes her way in. She is actually only ever nippy when looking for food. Right now she seems to try anything I put in the tank: Sera O-nip, flake, tiny pellets, frozen brine shrimp, frozen daphnia, as well as the sinking pellets I toss in once or twice a week to be sure the cories are eating enough. I get the feeling she would eat out of my hand if I gave it a try.

I will research introducing rams and also see how the fish at the local stores look. I am lucky to have a number of well run independent stores near me.

 

[kashif314]

I have been lucky. The first few days I was nervous for her because she was actually very passive and the rasbora were eating all of the food. Now she pushes her way in. She is actually only ever nippy when looking for food. Right now she seems to try anything I put in the tank: Sera O-nip, flake, tiny pellets, frozen brine shrimp, frozen daphnia, as well as the sinking pellets I toss in once or twice a week to be sure the cories are eating enough. I get the feeling she would eat out of my hand if I gave it a try.

I will research introducing rams and also see how the fish at the local stores look. I am lucky to have a number of well run independent stores near me.

If she is eating food then its great. Keep her and make a harem and see how it goes. Really German blue rams are very very beautiful fish and I love there personality. I want to add here that even when they fight together they lip lock and show aggression but not to the point to kill the other one. Keep us updated about your experience.

As I said they need warm water to thrive. Without warm water they can't live long and won't be healthy.

You bring more German blue rams and maybe you can pull out the ram in your tank a day prior and put her in some other tank if you have and then put her with new ones all together. By doing this she won't be territorial to new rams. But if you can't do that even then its ok. Ita just a nice idea to give such fish little time out before they see there own kind in there so called own Kingdom lol.

Good luck. Its a very very beautiful fish. Keep it. You will love them. I can watch them all day lip locking to each other and playing and coming and going from plants. Very very interesting fish to watch.

I am not an expert but personality wise I have two favorite fish. Brackish water puffer fish and rams. Electric or German specially.

 

[coralbandit]

I am in Saratoga NY and breed GBR and EBR..You are pretty close considering I ship USPS every Monday...
If you want male /females I can pick them for you properly.I would not have an odd number rams,even with an odd female my money says she will be ousted and die slowly...
On a side note despite what others say,angels and rams together are not ideal..They may get along for now ,but much like everyone keeps saying about the rams ,if and when the angels pair off the rams are in trouble IMO...

 

[kashif314]

Also please let me know if your shrimps were hiding or your ram ate them?

 

[afterwinter]

Thank you guys for all of the help and suggestions. I have ordered more plants to see if I can fill in some areas of the tank. My water temp is currently holding at 80.6. I am hoping that is warm enough for the ram but not too warm for the cory cats.

Things seem to have calmed down a bit and everyone seems to be finding their place in the tank. I do still have one ghost shrimp and I cannot be sure what happened to the other one since there was no sign of him at all. He could have had a bad molt or he could have been a large snack.

Coral, thanks for your offer of selling a pair I will definitely keep that in mind. I am going to give it some thought. My husband does not love the idea of a pair that could give us baby fish to worry about. I tried telling him that it is unlikely any would survive without intervention but he is not buying it so far. Probably because my cories have grown in number over the past two years despite having lived with a betta.

 

[afterwinter]

Blerg. I cannot blame the ram because there was no outward damage or sickness but one of my pygmy cories died. After having them suddenly die during my tank move I am thinking that they can suddenly die of stress. I will double check my levels but they had been holding steady at ammonia:0 nitrites:0 nitrates:10

Hrm. I guess I will keep an eye on the other ones. My new plants will be here on Friday. Here is hoping more cover helps. I have even seen my rasboras chase the little cories so maybe they are just fun to chase and need to be in a different tank :/ Or maybe I should return the ram and wait until I move next year to have a dedicated ram tank...

 

[kashif314]

Blerg. I cannot blame the ram because there was no outward damage or sickness but one of my pygmy cories died. After having them suddenly die during my tank move I am thinking that they can suddenly die of stress. I will double check my levels but they had been holding steady at ammonia:0 nitrites:0 nitrates:10

Hrm. I guess I will keep an eye on the other ones. My new plants will be here on Friday. Here is hoping more cover helps. I have even seen my rasboras chase the little cories so maybe they are just fun to chase and need to be in a different tank :/ Or maybe I should return the ram and wait until I move next year to have a dedicated ram tank...

Maybe she or he died because of stress. I didn't see Ram bothering or bullying any fish consistently. Usually its a warning sign and all is back to normal. I see you have emotional connection with cories as they are with you from a long time otherwise I would have get rid of any other fish and house rams specially when they are eating and healthy. I say wait and see. Maybe its a coincidence that corys died. You may consider re homing rasboras. I am sure Rams won't bother corys.