Research, water chem, & Rams. Long post!

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Melody

Aquarium Advice Addict
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
1,147
Location
Front Royal VA
Ok, I have decided I want rams.... male & female = babies???

My 10 gal is set up and running with a sword tail cycling it for me. I have four things in this tank so far, a HOB filter Penn Plax 200 with "Bio-Falls", a cheepy heater (will be upgraded before fish added), a bag of cultured gravel, and a piece of cultured bog wood... I am on day two of my cycling and water prams are as follows
nitrite 0
ph 7.0 (tap water is same)
ammonia is 0
I dont have a nitrate kit
gh is 143 ppm... I think... It took 8 drops to get the tube to turn green... still my natural tap readings....
So far I am shocked that I have no change in readings from my tap water...
I am going out hopefully today to get some sand blasting gravel for the substrate. I need to get that in there soon. any info on this??? I was also thinking maybe glass blasting beads...

First, I know that the water is too hard and the ph is too high for the blue rams, and I know that the bog wood over time will help, but I still need to figure out what water to use or how to treat it before my water changes.
Peat Moss??? in the filter? or how?? mix distilled with my tap?? I have a sneaking feeling someone is going to say RO unit... I dont have that kind of cash right now, although I may ask for one for Christmas...
the test kit book suggested a water softener pillow... I have never seen or used these, any input??
I am listing ALL the plants that Im LOOKING at, NOT all the plants that Im going to use. (more research needed :) )
Indian Red Sword
Fan Wort
Sword Plant (I think this is the dwarf variety, Echinodorus Paniculatus)
Jungle Valis
Star Grass
Trop. Hornwort
Im willing to do a DIY co2 bottle, I think I read that it will soften the water, but Im a little concerned about a huge alge bloom. I plan on my weekly water changes, but still not sure if that will be enough.
RIght now I have incadesent lights, but want to upgrade to florescent

Currently my temp is set at 80, but will be bumped up to about 82 after the cycle is done.

I have LIVED on this computer for two days now, trying to figure out how to give my Rams a nice home... but now Im more confused then I was before.......... ANY input is greatly needed!!!

Thanks!!!
~Melody
 
I think a ph of 7.0 will be fine. My tank stays between 7.2 and 7.3 and my Ram has not had an issue with it. Distilled water is going to have a ph of ~7.0, same from a RO unit. I would worry more about keeping the ph stable than trying to modify it.

If you have enough healthy plants, algae will not be an issue with co2 injection and high lights. I would caution you to use some kind of bubble counter with the co2 however, it is easy to mess up the parameters on a 10g.
 
grimlock3000 said:
I think a ph of 7.0 will be fine. My tank stays between 7.2 and 7.3 and my Ram has not had an issue with it. Distilled water is going to have a ph of ~7.0, same from a RO unit. I would worry more about keeping the ph stable than trying to modify it.

But what about the water hardness??? I inquired aobut the readings at the pet store and I was told that they were just fine... that was it... which tells me that they prob. dont have a clue what they are... The rams that I have been watching look healthy and strong... but little color, THey color up when mature right?? Im very leary about fish from this store. THey try to tell me that I HAVE to use carbon to have healthy fish, and things that I KNOW arent true. I see alot of dead fish or sick and dying. Chances are I WONT get my Rams from them, but have still been watching them.
 
I'm not familiar with your filter (I'm a strict Millenium man, myself) but it should be fine. The single most important thing you can do equipment-wise, is to buy yourself a high quality, submersible heater. Cheapies WILL fail you- and they'll take a tank full of fish with them. You cannot go wrong with an Ebo-Jager. I've got one that's over ten years old now and it's STILL my most accurate heater. The Deluxe Visi-therms are pretty good, too.

Tank decor for rams should consist of sand or fine grave substrate, some plants (live or plastic), some driftwood, a few small, NEW terra-cotta flower pots (very cheap at Lowe's or Home Depot), and a few pieces of flat rock. The plants and the wood provide territory boundaries, while the caves and the rocks provide spawning sites: I've had some rams that like to spawn inside the caves and others that prefer a smooth, flat rock. If you provide both, all bases are covered.;)

As far as your tap water goes: it's perfectly fine for rams. A stable pH is FAR more important than the "perfect" one: I've bred rams in water with a pH approaching 7.8! Other than maybe adding some Blackwater Extract, I wouldn't even worry about fooling around with the water chemistry. In the long run, you'll do much more harm than good while "tweaking" it.


The easiest way to obtain a breeding pair of rams is to buy five or six and let them pair off naturally. It'll be obvious who's paired up with who and you can then take the others back to the shop. If this isn't feasible, you can try and pick a male/female pair and hope for the best...

That's all I can think of for now. Hope it helps.

Steven
 
How large are these rams in the shop? Really young juveniles won't have developed their full colors. Larger ones that look washed out are from poor breeding strains and should be avoided.
 
I have researched myself into a tizzy!!!! :roll:

Ok... so no messing with the water....
What do you think of the sand blasting gravel??? Or the glass blasting beads??
the more I think about it, I want the glass beads, they are the size of the pellets found in Beanie Babies, just made of glass........

Is my plant list OK?? Do I mess with the co2 ? I WOULD get a bubble counter,

THe rams that Im looking at are about 1 1/2 - 2 inches. Im thinking of online ordering, or special ordering from a different pet store. I probably wont get the ones from my lfs.

Voodoo Chilli, do you have any stock? Im in TN alot! Knox & Nash
 
I have researched myself into a tizzy!!!!

Pretty much :) Keeping things simple and stable is typically the best thing to do. It makes it easier on you, and the fish.

What do you think of the sand blasting gravel??? Or the glass blasting beads??
the more I think about it, I want the glass beads, they are the size of the pellets found in Beanie Babies, just made of glass........

For substate, I would skip on trying to be fancy, and go buy a bag of Schulz (Schultz?) Aquatic Potting Soil. The stuff works great, does not need much rinsing, and gives the tank a natural look and you do not have to worry abour it. You can find the stuff at Wal Mart, Home Depot... Looks like this:

30gal1.JPG


And here is what the tank would look like before a trimming:

30gal.jpg


That is with a Pepsi bottle DIY co2 injection and 3.2 wpg of light.

Is my plant list OK?? Do I mess with the co2 ? I WOULD get a bubble counter,

Plant list look OK to me, but I am not a plant person so someone else can give you better info on your selections. You will need to mess with the co2 to make sure it is outputting the right ammount for your tank. Also, with DIY co2 you need to keep and eye on it to make sure it keeps a stable output and does not run out.

THe rams that Im looking at are about 1 1/2 - 2 inches. Im thinking of online ordering, or special ordering from a different pet store. I probably wont get the ones from my lfs.

Meh, that is pretty big for a Ram in a pet store, almost full grown. Rams are pretty sensitive and do not ship terribly well IMO. It is up to you wether you want to try the Rams from the pet store, or order mystery Rams from elsewhere. Rams typically color up a lot once you get them home and into a nice tank.
 
grimlock3000 said:
For substate, I would skip on trying to be fancy, and go buy a bag of Schulz (Schultz?) Aquatic Potting Soil. The stuff works great, does not need much rinsing, and gives the tank a natural look and you do not have to worry abour it. You can find the stuff at Wal Mart, Home Depot...


And here is what the tank would look like before a trimming:

30gal.jpg



Rams typically color up a lot once you get them home and into a nice tank.


HOLY COW!!!!!!!!!!! 8O

Your tank looks great... even when in need of a little hedge trimming.. I can imagine how much the fish LOVED it...

So true Aquatic potting soil.... done.....
I was under the impression that this stuff was hard to manage.

As far as the co2... Im going to try it. Im a stay at home mom, and besides cleaning the house, I have nothing to do but play with the dog and watch my neighbors :eyes:
oh boy...things are coming together...yippie!!!

Grimlock... hope this doesnt sound like a stupid question, but, as far as GH & PH, are they related? I was thinking about this on your post about the ph,
I have tried to read up on it, but my eyes seem to keep glazing over... 8O

THanks Again!!!!!
 
That is not my tank, but I did have a lot of input in getting it setup :) My tank is still full of silk plants. I am going to go planted once I move in a couple of weeks.

Without getting into too much detail that is over my head, CO2, KH, and pH are related:

co2-dietsch.gif


(pic from www.thekrib.com)

Typically you would measure pH and KH, then figure out your CO2 level. Check out this info here:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html
 
Wow.. cool site...
Good info that was only a little bit over my head :fadein:
I think I understand it, I will read it again, then it should sink in. so heres my shopping list for tomorrow...
Schultz Aqua. potting soil,
Aquarium silcone
bubble counter
check valve (right??? )
I already have a few clay pots that are new
a KH test kit, and a co2 test kit...
a bag of IV tubing off the squad (I vol. with rescue squad, Im such a red neck :roll: )
am I missing anything?
 
Melody-

I don't have any rams right now but the next time you're in Knoxville you should stop by Bernie's shop (The Fish Store). He isn't too far south of K-town and usually has both blue and golds in stock and these are from a really nice strain: they adapt to the "local" water really well and grow large and colorful! His prices are so low, you could take home a half-dozen and let a pair form naturally- which is the easiest way to get a breeding pair.
 
ok... update

I now have everything done, decorated and done. I still have to make my co2 system, I cant find a bubble counter and will probably have to order one online. Only thing is the water is SUPER cloudy...... I can barely see the back of the tank. I used shultz aquatic potting soil, and rinsed it till the water was clear and after first adding it, the water was a little murkey with the left over dust, but now it looks milkey... I just dont remember my other tanks doing this. I know about the whole "new tank syndrom" but I thought that was after a week or so.... ok, well the tank has been set up for a week or so. So maybe that what it is, I just upset the whole cycling thing... its ok,
Another question, I know I have to have alot of plants and hidey holes for my rams, but just how big should the holes be?? How tall? I was talking to the fish store guy yesterday, and he said that he would order me some rams, and he will let me take 6 or 7 home and wait till I have a breeding pair, then I can bring the rest back in. but Its going to be a little while before he can get them in. THey are difficult to come by in our area. All the more time to get a good established tank going...
 
If the caves and hiding spots are big enough for the rams to fit into, they're the right size. They really aren't too picky: it's just important to have enough "stuff" in the tank to break up sight lines so the fish can establish territories.

I'm glad you're going to get to go through with the "grow out" method to get your pair. This is by far the easiest and most reliable way to do it.

The only other thing that comes to mind is that I'd see if the shop won't "hold" your rams at the store for about a week and let them acclimate there, rather than your house. Rams can be touchy right after shipping: the move from the store to your tank is MUCH less stressful.
 
Voodoo Chilli said:
The only other thing that comes to mind is that I'd see if the shop won't "hold" your rams at the store for about a week and let them acclimate there, rather than your house. Rams can be touchy right after shipping: the move from the store to your tank is MUCH less stressful.


I think the owner will do this, he said that it takes a little time to acclimate the rams to his ph, which runs about 7.2
He does have a 7 day policy, and Im going to take in a water sample before I go get them, just to make sure were close. As long as they are active, and the ones that I pick will have to eat for me. I'll be in good shape. You all have been so great... Thank You!!!
 
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