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Old 04-03-2016, 12:53 AM   #21
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Btw, I'm asking this because I had a long battle with someone in a group I'm in. Very long to the extent that they where kicked out of the group by the group admin

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Old 04-03-2016, 01:10 AM   #22
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Just need jetajockey now. . Great discussion, appreciate the dosing info.

To wade in, I think when adding salt long-term you also need to know the salt content of the tap water.

Using half teaspoon per US gallon I get 0.07% salt level (er, I hope - link below)

http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Salt

This is within range of salt used in transport of fish (link below) with the assumption being this is found to be of benefit. However the argument against that is this is just for transport, not long term keeping.

http://www2.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/SaltStressCatfish.htm

"Traditionally, 0.5 to 2 g/l (0.05 to 0.2%) sodium chloride solutions have been used to reduce stress during fish transport. However, as discussed above, an 8 g/l (0.8%) sodium chloride solution more closely duplicates fish blood. "

It's pretty hard to find salt levels here in tap water as it gets reported as sodium only. In the past I've assumed from water reports that it is 200ppm salt or 0.02%. It probably actually varies - I should try and research the source water.

So from what I have seen you can dose these low salt levels and probably doesn't make a difference. I say probably as information seems rather low on long term effects / stress / benefits.

People dose salt at say 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons and report no issues. I'll see if I can convert that to a percentage.

On the other hand, fish that have a long ancestry of living in low salt waters - well that's what they are adapted to.
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Old 04-03-2016, 01:11 AM   #23
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Salt and dojo loaches

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Originally Posted by jwh0818 View Post
What about if you're treating ich?

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Imo that should be kept separate as long-term versus short term. Although useful to examine as well. I'm not aware of any studies here for ich.

From memory for cories you could do it but need to introduce salt levels slowly so they can adjust as their ancestry is not used to high salt levels. Need to check my notes though.
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Old 04-03-2016, 01:24 AM   #24
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Imo that should be kept separate as long-term versus short term. Although useful to examine as well. I'm not aware of any studies here for ich.

From memory for cories you could do it but need to introduce salt levels slowly so they can adjust as their ancestry is not used to high salt levels. Need to check my notes though.
I think all salt levels in fw should be introduced slowly. This ich medication I'm using has formalin and malachite green salts and it works awesome. I know this part is a different subject as it is short term but even then, almost all can handle it with the exception of a few species

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Old 04-03-2016, 10:05 AM   #25
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What about if you're treating ich?

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It will kill them,period.

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Old 04-03-2016, 03:53 PM   #26
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All fresh water (unless it's been treated in one form or another to remove it) has some degree of salinity; this includes tap water. If memory serves, softer water has less salinity than harder water. Thus, if a fish is wild caught, or only a few generations removed from being wild caught, it would be more susceptible to the effects of saline variance than tank or farm bred fish. Scaleless fish seem to always be more susceptible to chemical variances than scaled fish. I'm of the opinion that whatever works for the individual is the right thing for him/her. However, as I have several types of loaches in various tanks, I'm not going to chance adding salt.
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Old 04-03-2016, 04:04 PM   #27
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I removed a few unacceptable posts please keep this thread on topic .

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Old 04-03-2016, 09:07 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey W. View Post
It will kill them,period.

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Short-term dosing:
Can I just ask what that is based off? I'm not saying to use salt or don't use salt or that I need to treat but am curious on any findings or information on that you may have here.


Long term dosing (will dig up rest on cories):
Quite often I see these discussion threads and people will be using salt and there doesn't seem to be a lot of information except that it seems to be going ok (whatever that means). Very rarely I've seen people that have tried either way (it seems to me that it takes years to come to a conclusion) - some seem to stop and some continue.

[/FONT]
https://books.google.com.au/books?id...ydoras&f=false

Clinical Veterinary Advisor, Birds and Exotic Pets,1: Clinical Veterinary Advisor
p512 – Emergency Care

Post-Procedure

“Some plant and fish species are anecdotally considered sensitive to salinity treatments, but recent evidence suggests that others (e.g. Corydoras catfish) may be able to tolerate 0.5 to 2 ppt”


Or 0.05% to 0.2% salt.
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Old 04-03-2016, 11:33 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delapool View Post
Short-term dosing:
Can I just ask what that is based off? I'm not saying to use salt or don't use salt or that I need to treat but am curious on any findings or information on that you may have here.


Long term dosing (will dig up rest on cories):
Quite often I see these discussion threads and people will be using salt and there doesn't seem to be a lot of information except that it seems to be going ok (whatever that means). Very rarely I've seen people that have tried either way (it seems to me that it takes years to come to a conclusion) - some seem to stop and some continue.

[/FONT]
https://books.google.com.au/books?id...ydoras&f=false

Clinical Veterinary Advisor, Birds and Exotic Pets,1: Clinical Veterinary Advisor
p512 Ė Emergency Care

Post-Procedure

ďSome plant and fish species are anecdotally considered sensitive to salinity treatments, but recent evidence suggests that others (e.g. Corydoras catfish) may be able to tolerate 0.5 to 2 pptĒ


Or 0.05% to 0.2% salt.
It is simply based off other's personal experiences. IMO why try it if you now there may be a potential that you may overdose or hurt the loaches. I don't understand why someone would even try without being able to accurately tell the salinity of their water. Sorry I didn't come up with some scientific way to explain my opinion. But it is my opinion. Isn't it what this forum is about. Not to prove someone wrong but to be open to other's personal experiences?

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Old 04-04-2016, 12:23 AM   #30
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A long time I ago I there was a certain chain pet store that always advocated for aquarium salt on FW. They have not in quite some time. I asked if it was because of the plants being sensitive to sodium. They told me no, certain fish were. I did not ask which ones. It seems like that was an old 80's/90's Idea that was discontinued. I think it is having a resurgence because people have seen YouTube vids and claims it can cure ich. So maybe they think it can be a preventative? Not sure. What little experiments I did trying to keep brackish puffers by adding salt did not end well. BTW I have kept successful SW Reef Tanks. Just wanted to share my experience.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:36 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey W. View Post
It is simply based off other's personal experiences. IMO why try it if you now there may be a potential that you may overdose or hurt the loaches. I don't understand why someone would even try without being able to accurately tell the salinity of their water. Sorry I didn't come up with some scientific way to explain my opinion. But it is my opinion. Isn't it what this forum is about. Not to prove someone wrong but to be open to other's personal experiences?

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Hi, that's great. The trouble I find with scientific papers is they can be a little short on details sometimes. To the point that I wonder how the tank was set up. Myself I'll compile both research and practical tank experience which is why I find these threads fascinating. Learn a little extra each time. Thanks for the reply.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:17 AM   #32
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I had my entire tank of rainbow sharks, yoyo loaches, Dino bichir, Raphael catfish, rubber pleco, shovelnose catfish, and columbian tetras get heavy metal disease once. It is a very deadly disease. Considering I had several scaleless fish, I was afraid to use salt. But it was my only chance to cure the almost guaranteed death. After almost an entire cup of the salt in a 40 g. All but a rainbow shark were successfully cured. So in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with salt in a tank with scaleless fish.
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Old 04-04-2016, 03:04 PM   #33
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Each persons water composition is different.

I have -0- measurable KH out of my tap and lower GH. I used to use about a half teaspoon of salt per gallon- a special salt from the great salt lakes, Orso aka RealSalt salt, natural with over 50 minerals in it can find in bulk or bulk bagged at local health food store.

3 years ago being told I shouldn't use salt in tanks with Cories and that tanks do not need it. I stopped using it. To be honest I have had so many more complications in my tank keeping since I do NOT put salt in the tanks now. I now need to use/add minerals to the water to make up for the lack of salt.

So for my situation I had very healthy active Cories in apparent good health when I added salt. Also I used sea salt (refined no minerals) before the Orso salt.

So I think it would be very useful to know ones salt level to start with and a blanket answer probably isn't possible without knowing each tanks specifics.

I have used higher dosage salt and treated ICH with salt and heat with the Cories in the tank and seemingly no ill effects over a 2-3 week period. One addition for that treatment is to be darned sure to have excess aeration for the tank to be well oxygenated!

Not specifically for Dojos but scaleless fish in general.

My mom lived in an area with higher salts and minerals in the water with her Dojo and that guy was healthy and happy growing big and old.
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