Second tank on hold

[Beehpee]

Hi All, I was hoping to get another tank this week, I thought I was having a nice easy introduction to keeping fish and counted myself very fortunate that only being in this hobby for around 3 months (ish) I had tootled along with very few mishaps even tho I did a fish in cycle, I think in first couple of weeks I lost 2 maybe 3 fish due to adding far too many much too quickly, I felt bad about the casualties but I've moved on since and thought things were going well enough to get another tank, in the last 2 days tho things haven't been good, my tank is I guess around 37 US gallons, water readings which I take using API mater kit have been constantly good at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and as best as I can tell the nitrate is deff less than 40 and deff much nearer to the 20 color on the chart, water looks crystal clear, fish look happy with no bullying that I've seen and I watch them more than you can imagine, yet in last 3 days I've lost 1 male guppie, 1 galaxy rasboro, 3 neon tetra and a 3 spot gourami, I have no idea as to why and I've done a 40% water change each day for 3 days running just as a precaution in the hope things will settle down, another thing I've now done is gone out and bought a Fluval 306 canister filter, I thought the internal Fluval U3 was more than enough but again just to be on the safe side I thought I'd be better getting the new one in, only been installed for last half hour so early days yet as to what difference it's going to make, I'm obviously still running the internal filter as well and will do for few weeks till new one is established, in the 306 I've just put it in as it comes in the box with sponges, then bottom basket has more sponge, then other 2 have bio rings and carbon bags, I wish things for this hobby were as cheap in UK as over there, the 306 just cost me the equiv of around $200 still if it stops the losses then it's gonna be money well spent, so with this extra expense plus the knock it's given my confidence in my abilities I'm putting the new tank on hold, reckon I've gotta get more experience first, case of learning to walk before I try running, just one quick question for anyone, given I don't know why I've had the losses does anyone think I'd be better off having anything different in any of the baskets in the new filter and if so what the benefits would be be, also I'm assuming there's no such thing as over filtering as I must be turning over something like 12 + water volume an hour? Any opinions or input be great.

BP

 

[tamtam]

I think perhaps your nitrate may be the issue. Ideally you want your nitrate to be less than 20. IF you are having your nitrates be consistently over 20ppm this could be causing stress and long term this could be effecting your fish.

Is there any other signs or symptoms before the fish die? Do they look fine?

What all is in the tank, pre loss and post lost?

The U3 would have been ok depending on stock. Do you run a bubbler as well? Perhaps you don't have good oxygenation? Though I'd suspect some signs, like gasping at the surface.

The fluval canister is def a great filter, but I'd honestly run both if you can long term. I believe your fluval canister runs a GPH of about 145 GPH. IDealy you want a GPH of about 5 times your tank volume for canisters. So you'd want about 185 ideally. So long as the current in the tank isn't too much for you fish and causing stress then there is no such thing as too much filtration. lol.

Sorry you lost so many fish.

What was the size of the new tank you were planning to get? Don't let it beat you up too much, especially if you were planning a larger tank. Larger tanks are easier to maintain than smaller ones. Much more forgiving with mistakes and water quality.

 

[Beehpee]

I was gonna get a 70 plus gallon but think best to hold off for now till I'm happy with looking after this one, I now have in the tank....

4 zebra danio
4 neon tetra
6 guppy ( 2m 4f)
1 3 spot gourami
5 platty
4 Molly's
2 African dwarf frog
Before the losses it was this plus the lost fish, I don't know if it's my imagination but looking at the tank now the new 306 has been running around 12 hours but it just looks brighter and fresher, I'm holding off retesting the water till tomorrow as want to give the new filter a good 24 hours before I test, mind you I can't see how the test can be any better as it was good before, deff has this fresher look tho, maybe that's just wishful thinking I dunno..... So if I want to get the nitrates down lower, what do people think of the nitrate absorbing pads you can get for the 306? My water changes have been 3 at 35+% daily for last 3 days and hasn't budged so although most of what read reckons below 40 is fine I'm gonna try and get it lower as you suggest.

BP

 

[Beehpee]

It will be interesting as well to open up the new canister 306 when it's been running for 24 hours just to see what has been collected on the sponges, you wouldn't expect it to be very much as tank looked clear pre it going in, let you know what I find tomorrow.

BP

 

[Beehpee]

Ok I just did a water test after having the new filter in for almost 24 hours.

Amm. 0
Nitrite. 0
Nitrate. 20.

So I want to know should I aim to get the nitrate even lower than 20 or is this level a good figure to have and I don't mean for now but long term, should I try and get it down to a steady 10 maybe? I know that water changes are the best answer to maintaining low readings but would something like Ntra Zorb pouch in the filter be in any way detrimental to the tank, this wouldn't be as a substitute to water changes as as daft as it sounds I actually enjoy the time I spend doing the changes as gives me an opportunity to really check how things are doing, I just want to do what's for the best as ensure the fish live a long and happy life. Cheers for any thoughts or input.

BP.

 

[tamtam]

Ok I just did a water test after having the new filter in for almost 24 hours.

Amm. 0
Nitrite. 0
Nitrate. 20.

So I want to know should I aim to get the nitrate even lower than 20 or is this level a good figure to have and I don't mean for now but long term, should I try and get it down to a steady 10 maybe? I know that water changes are the best answer to maintaining low readings but would something like Ntra Zorb pouch in the filter be in any way detrimental to the tank, this wouldn't be as a substitute to water changes as as daft as it sounds I actually enjoy the time I spend doing the changes as gives me an opportunity to really check how things are doing, I just want to do what's for the best as ensure the fish live a long and happy life. Cheers for any thoughts or input.

BP.

I've never used those pouches/inserts, I'm very cheap. lol. Though I have seen several on this board use them and have never heard anything bad about them.

Ideally I always aim to keep my tank under 20. With my water change schedule it's usually around 15 when I do a change.

I also enjoy the time I tinker away with my tank. I actually do water changes twice a week or every 5 days for the sake of it. I also get to shoo the kids with hubby for a few minutes of silence in lue of a "chore" lol.

 

[Beehpee]

Cheers for that info, ok so unless someone comes in with any reason as to why not to use the nitrate absorbing pouch I might just give it a go, I seem to be able to maintain it at 20 ish but if gonna be better environment if I get it lower then that's the way to go, will see if I get any negative feed back on them first tho and then get one monday.

BP

 

[manbeast]

just to poke you in a different direction live plants use nitrates as food and would naturally remove them from the water column while enhancing the overall appearance of the tank IMO

 

[Beehpee]

I have a decent amount of live plants in there and where I live it's not the best for finding healthy plants but I do look every time I go to Lfs for more, I pretty much have all I want other than one good sized tall plant to replace the very last artificial, started off with all artificial and as and when I come across a healthy one I like I've slowly replaced them, around here I'm not too bad finding a good selection of fish but they all seem to stock plants that look like they are ready for the compost bin, thanks for the suggestion though.

BP

 

[tamtam]

I have a decent amount of live plants in there and where I live it's not the best for finding healthy plants but I do look every time I go to Lfs for more, I pretty much have all I want other than one good sized tall plant to replace the very last artificial, started off with all artificial and as and when I come across a healthy one I like I've slowly replaced them, around here I'm not too bad finding a good selection of fish but they all seem to stock plants that look like they are ready for the compost bin, thanks for the suggestion though.

BP

I'm sorry I didn't realize you have a good amount of plants. In your case I think 20 is a good range. Your plants will use your nitrate so you wouldn't want to remove too much from your water. I'm not sure how much these products remove. You def want to keep in below 40. 20 is a good range I just usually opt to go lower than that because I do not have plants and if I'm behind on water changes it's nice to have that wiggle room as well.

So long as you maintain a decent water schedule and it's not spiking too high I say your good.

 

[Beehpee]

I'm real OCD on water checking and never do less than a 35% pwc each week and often do it before its due so more like every 5/6 days, I've got at least 9 live plants in there plus just the one fake which will be gone when find right replacement, I don't much like the fake but does a good job of hiding the internal filter, the only reason I've been concerned about the nitrates is cos of the recent unexplained losses, I guess sometimes we never really know why we lose fish and just have to keep giving it our best and hope for a little luck along the way, I opened the new filter just now to have an idea of what it had filtered out of what I thought was already clean healthy water and I was a bit surprised at how much it had still picked up, that's got to make the living conditions better so glad I went for it.

BP

 

[tamtam]

I'm always surprised when I swish my filters at the stuff that comes out. My water is usually pretty clear with the exception of algae and I am pretty good with feeding though my fish are messy eaters.

 

[Beehpee]

Here's a picture of how it's looking now, the big plant at front right is the fake so looking for something that will do a similar hiding job of the internal filter and guess I'm gonna need another live plant to hide the intake for the new



fluval which can be seen in the middle at the back, the box on the front is a circulating breeder box, I had a couple of guppies in there and now put em back in main tank cos happy to have 5 fry to watch growing, I'm pleased with this breeder box cos water comes in from main tank and keeps it aerated and at right temp, it's gonna be good watching these 5 grow (fingers crossed lol)

BP

 

[Beehpee]

Just noticed the breeder box got cut of in the picture so here it is.

 

[tamtam]

nice! I've been looking for a breeder box here and have actually had a hell of a time finding one. My pet store is so lame. lol.

For plants have you looked into water sprite? It's low light, very easy and I hear in moderate light it will grow like a weed. It grows nice and tall too.

Aquatic Plants for Freshwater Aquariums: Water Sprite Aquarium Plant

 

[Beehpee]

With plants I just keep an eye out whenever I visit the Lfs and get something if I like it and it looks healthy, I have the same problem with pretty poor stock of plants at our lame Lfs lol, this breeder is great, it's 2'litres so is biggest I've seen without having complete new separate tank and it gets the water in by using an air pump to send bubbles up a tube which siphons water in, then an overflow just puts it back into the tank, works great.

BP

 

[bud29]

Also, I recommend some Anarchis. Put some tetra florapride in with it and it will grow like crazy. Anarchis is pretty good at taking out nitrates. I have some in my tank because I am constantly battling high trates.