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How about half a dozen zebra danios? They are hard as nails, and dart around all over the place so your tank wont look quite as empty as only one platty, yet the load wont be much greater as they are quite a bit smaller.

regards

NB
 
Of course whatever fish I pick up I will acclimate even more slowly than normal because I have the temp up higher than normal to kill off any remaining ich, but will it cause a problem with the fish or will they be okay with it?

I'll probably do a 25-30% change to take some of the salt out and bring the temp down a little - anyone strongly advise against this action? I'm going to wait until later in the morning to do it.

In the meantime I'll check out those danios, NinjaBill - thanks for the suggestion :) UPDATE: I just went to LivaAquaria and it looks like Danios prefer lower pH - we have harder water here in the area, mine is a steady 8.0... I will ask the lfs guy though, there's a nice little shop right in town.
 
See what pH your lfs is keeping them in at the moment. If they use local water to keep the fish in, then they are probably at the higher pH already. If they are used to it it probably wont need much aclimatisation, however, if they are kept at a much lower pH at your LFS, it may be a little more time consuming to acclimatise them.

Regards
NB

PS

according to fishprofiles http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/zebra.xml , they are ok at a pH of 8
 
Ok, I will talk to them about it when I get there. I would assume since the shop is less than a mile from my house that they use the same water I do, but I will check. Crossing my fingers they know what they are doing and can actually help.
 
Do you think I should add fish even though I am still treating for ich?
Uhmm, the substrate and free swimming stages of the Ich parasite last a few weeks, don't they? So no host fish for two weeks means no more Ich. Of course, the heat, salt, and any other meds you put in might have already done that, I hope.

BTW, my danios are in water that is "moderately" hard, PH 8 and they are very happy
 
Found this site: http://fish.orbust.net/ich.html

And this was what they said...

The life cycle of the Ich is a complex one, as by the time you see it on your fish it is already in the adult stages of its life. The general consensus is that Ich has a lifespan of about 10 to 14 days, while there are those in the science world that will go as far to say the lifespan will be as long as 20 days. When you first see Ich it will appear as grains of salt on your fish. By the time that you see it as stated before it’s in its final stages and ready to reproduce. After falling off of the host, it becomes free swimming and will fall to the bottom of the tank or attach itself to rocks and decoration in the tank.

Once the cyst settles in begins to multiply by dividing itself up to as many as 2,000 times. The result of this division produces what is called Tomites. The time frame for this division can vary. In a tank that is 77 degrees F, the tomites will only require about 12 hours to complete this stage as where in a tank of 50 degrees F it may require months to complete.

After the formation of the tomites is complete, they emerge from the cyst as free swimming Theronts. At this stage of their life they are looking for new hosts to feed on. After finding their new host, they will penetrate the fish’s skin and then become Trophozites where the cycle of life begins again. If a Theronts is unable to find a new host within 24 they will usually die.


Okay, so I saw the ich on my mollies one week ago (last Wednesday) and immediately raised the temperature and added salt. I had the temperature up to 89 degrees for about 2 days, then scaled it back to about 86. The last of my first batch of fish died Sunday, so the tank has been empty for 2 days (with 86 degree water and salt). From all that I have read about ich, I think I killed it off. If not, then I must be the most unlucky aquarist. :(
 
Moxie...you could have seen this information in the articles section (never a need to go elsewhere) :wink:

It's true, since you haven't had any fish for two days, and were treating for a week, you may have killed off all the parasites already. The extra time suggested is a precaution just to be sure (those tomites are tricky little devils). This is why hardy type fish have been recommended to you.
 
Jchillin said:
Moxie...you could have seen this information in the articles section (never a need to go elsewhere) :wink:

It's true, since you haven't had any fish for two days, and were treating for a week, you may have killed off all the parasites already. The extra time suggested is a precaution just to be sure (those tomites are tricky little devils). This is why hardy type fish have been recommended to you.

Well okay Mr. smartypants :p

HERE STARTS THE NEW TANK...

Tank has been empty of fish for 48 hours, turned heat down to 79-80 degrees and did a 20% water change with very light vacuuming. I did not replace salt removed with the old water. At 10:30am I tested:

ammonia @ .25ppm
nitrites @ 0 ppm
nitrates @ 0 ppm

I visited my lfs (not the one I got the first batch and the Bio-Spira from) and spent some time talking to him about cycling and the fish and what I can do to help things along. I'm sorry to all the patient purists out there, but I just can't sit around with an empty tank for 4-6 weeks waiting for the thing to cycle by itself. So I asked the guy to help me pick out some fish to start with - told him to pick me out the hardiest! I asked about platies, and he actually advised me against the ones he had because he wasn't sure how well they were doing - said he was going to watch them for a couple more days. I thought that was a good sign... the fish looked fine to me. He also recommended that I help keep the water oxygenated using one capful of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons of water as this was a practice he uses at the store.

My daughter was with me, and was attracted to a feeder fish (I have pictures, I'll post them in my gallery as soon as I'm done with this post), so we got an orange one with black on its spine and tips of its tail. Also got 2 calico mollies and one little black balloon molly, 2 sword tails and 1 dwarf flame gourami. I had been under the impression that gouramis are highly aggressive towards the other kinds of fish I wanted, but he said the dwarves co-habitated fine with the fish he put in with them (he had at least 3 mollies in the gourami tank and all looked content).

Got them home and acclimated them very slowly. Added 3.5 capfuls of hydrogen peroxide. Went with my gut instinct and rather than net them out of the bag, I released them with the water from the store. After watching them for a bit, I fed them SPARINGLY (one large flake crushed into smaller pieces) and they all ate fine. Watched the mollies eat what I presume is algae starting to grow on the ornaments. The gourami is rather shy when there is activity near the tank, but has 2 hiding places and will swim freely when no one's looking :) The swordtails appear to have taken residence inside the right-hand cave.

At 5:00pm I decided to retest, assumed that the levels would be the same as before, but what the heck...

ammonia @ .25 ppm (no change)
nitrites @ 0 ppm (no change)
nitrates @ 5 ppm (CHANGE!)

Whenever I have tested for nitrates before and got something other that bright neon yellow (indicating no nitrates at all), I got something of a not-so-neon yellow. This time it was actually more of an orange! WOOT! I got nitrates!

Both my husband and I agree this batch of fish is a lot more active and responsive than the first. Unlike last time, no one has found a hiding spot and not moved from it (I still never found the last dead guppy :x). My fingers are crossed for these guys...

Edit: three pics of some of the new fish are up in my gallery :)
 
Ok Moxie...you went out and despite all the advice given you:

1. Got more mollies
2. Put LFS water in your tank
3. Brought a gourami
4. Put a goldfish in a tropical tank
5. You put in hydrogen peroxide even though you have a great filter and an airstone

You have quite a mixed bag of fish to cycle the tank now. I will keep my fingers crossed.
 
I certainly hope this works out for you, Moxie. Your fish look wonderful.

I haven't come across putting hydrogen peroxide in a tank. What does this do?
 
good luck moxie girl hope everything turns out nicely jchillin is right thought the seems like a strange mix of fish but i have to say have seen worse situations work out well
good luck hope there are no casualtys
 
The chemical formula for hydrogen peroxide is H2O2. I have NEVER heard of putting that in water. In fact, in certain quantities, it's harmful to biological cells. It reacts with cells, hence the bubbling when you put it on a cut.
Granted, I'm not an expert here, but I'm not aware of that extra oxygen in the formula detaching to make water (H2O) and oxygen. Does anyone else know??
And I hate to jump on the bandwagon here, but I've read a LOT of Moxie's posts over the past few days and read all about the tragedy of the first tank. I don't think it was a good idea to buy so many fish. But I do wish you the best of luck!! :)
Code:
 
Granted, I'm not an expert here, but I'm not aware of that extra oxygen in the formula detaching to make water (H2O) and oxygen. Does anyone else know??
Arrgghh. have to eat my words. Got peroxide mixed up with superoxide. it is superoxide that is the "free radical" that damages cell membranes. Sorry! Guess I shouldn't be trying to recall biochemistry so late at night. The earlier post with the misinformation has been replace by this neat little blurb about peroxide on the net:

Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is something you can buy at the drug store. What you are buying is a 3-percent solution, meaning the bottle contains 97-percent water and 3-percent hydrogen peroxide. Most people use it as an antiseptic. It turns out that it is not very good as an antiseptic, but it is not bad for washing cuts and scrapes and the foaming looks cool.

The reason why it foams is because blood and cells contain an enzyme called catalase. Since a cut or scrape contains both blood and damaged cells, there is lots of catalase floating around.

When the catalase comes in contact with hydrogen peroxide, it turns the hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) into water (H2O) and oxygen gas (O2).


H2O2 --> H2O + O2
Catalase does this extremely efficiently -- up to 200,000 reactions per second. The bubbles you see in the foam are pure oxygen bubbles being created by the catalase. Try putting a little hydrogen peroxide on a cut potato and it will do the same thing for the same reason -- catalase in the damaged potato cells reacts with the hydrogen peroxide.

Hydrogen peroxide does not foam in the bottle or on your skin because there is no catalase to help the reaction to occur. Hydrogen peroxide is stable at room temperature

So, consider the earlier post recanted (and now edited)and blame late night fatigue for the misinformation. H2O2 seems to be a complex and versatile substance that can be a potent oxidizer, weak disinfectant, or expensive supply of water and air for your tank!
 
It would actually raise the oxygen content of the water.

there are several articles on the web usually in forums of sites about Ponds where they use it to raise oxygen lvls of the water.
 
Yes, I realize I have gone against some of the advice I've been given here, and if the fish all die then I will eat a hot plate of crow and have it on my conscience. I knew I would probably get a good stern talking to, but if you care to read, here's my reasoning...

I spoke with the owner of the pet store about the situation and he was the one who helped me pick out the fish. All of his tanks are separated so he can monitor new arrivals, which was one reason why he advised against taking any of his platy stock - he wasn't confident they were healthy and wanted to keep an eye on them for a few days. This tells me he's concerned about the rest of his fish by keeping them all separated when they arrive, and he wants the fish I buy to stay alive. Through the various articles and forum topics I've read, none talked about hydrogen peroxide. Since the owner told me he regularly uses it in all his tanks because it helps with oxygenation (correct term?), AND since the group of fish I would be taking home are going to help the initial cycle, he recommended I use a little. I saw no harm in taking his advice, since he uses it in his tanks and I saw no adverse effects.

When he mentioned possibly adding the dwarf gourami to the group I was getting, I did ask him extensively about it because I'd read how gouramis were aggressive and shouldn't go with the peaceful fish I planned on stocking. He told me that yes, most gouramis are aggressive and he wouldn't recommend any other kind than the dwarf flame gourami I eventually chose. The proof was also in the pudding - he had a few mollies and I think a couple of swordtails in the with the dwarf gouramis. All the inhabitants seemed calm, I saw no aggressive moves and no nipped fins or anything.

And as for the goldfish, it was my daughter who saw it and asked for it. Up until then I had left it up to the owner to pick out the hardiest fish for me and I didn't want to tell her she wasn't allowed to pick even one fish. Call me a sucker.

As for the water going in with my tank water, that was a judgement call. I was hoping that the water from the store (since the owner seemed very meticulous about his stock being healthy) would have some bacteria to help with the cycling. Perhaps I am dreaming, but at 10:30am (before adding fish) there were no signs of nitrates - at 5:00pm, it was clear there were nitrates in the water.

So that's the gist of it, sorry if I disappointed anyone. Guess my moxie took over :wink:

TODAY'S UPDATE:

At 2:15pm, all fish are swimming around actively. Sage fed them a small amount of flake food and they ate well. Whiskers the gourami wasn't shy when Sage was in front of the tank, which is a change from yesterday when he was rather shy of movement near the tank. I have been watching carefully for signs of aggression on any fish's part and so far all seem to get along fine.

tested the water:
ammonia @ .25
nitrites @ 0
nitrates @ >5, but less than 10 - definitely darker than yesterday.

THE EXCITING PART:
One of the calico mollies was pregnant and apparently gave birth. I saw one tiny little baby (less than a half inch, head to tail)! Who knows if it will be able to avoid being gobbled up, but I thought it was rather neat and Sage was really excited to see it swimming around the rocks.
 
It would actually raise the oxygen content of the water.

there are several articles on the web usually in forums of sites about Ponds where they use it to raise oxygen lvls of the water.
Learn something new everyday! :bulb:

Tom...don't apologize! It's not easy stuff to remember. I was going to go into enzymes in my last post but didn't want to be a boring Biology teacher. LOL!! And that experiment with the potato....I did that this year with my students when we were studying enzymes. It actually works great with liver too. :lol:

Moxie...it sounds like the guy at the LFS knew his stuff. I would have trusted him too. I really hope it all works out. I know how frustrating it is when your tank crashes...mine did 2 yrs ago. :)
 
Moxie - I can be a pain in the (add some three letter word here) sometimes but I can explain my earlier post.

It looked like you went full boat with the LFS guy and made decisions only with that advice. I was especially concerned about the water and the goldfish. If his water wasn't absolutely great, it could have contained more ich parasites, thereby setting you back once again. The peroxide thing...it's really only temporary (you have to add more and more and when would it stop) and you already had enough aeration. I'm really pulling for you and especially Sage in this. So, that being said, here's to you! (Just don't hit me too hard).
 
Ginafish said:
Moxie...it sounds like the guy at the LFS knew his stuff. I would have trusted him too. I really hope it all works out. I know how frustrating it is when your tank crashes...mine did 2 yrs ago. :)

My fingers are crossed he knows his stuff. Any time I asked how to do something or what to do in a situation, he offered several suggestions but also told me what he personally does, which made me feel comfortable taking his advice. Only time will tell now :)

Jchillin said:
Moxie - I can be a pain in the (add some three letter word here) sometimes but I can explain my earlier post.

It looked like you went full boat with the LFS guy and made decisions only with that advice. I was especially concerned about the water and the goldfish. If his water wasn't absolutely great, it could have contained more ich parasites, thereby setting you back once again. The peroxide thing...it's really only temporary (you have to add more and more and when would it stop) and you already had enough aeration. I'm really pulling for you and especially Sage in this. So, that being said, here's to you! (Just don't hit me too hard).

Yes, he said the peroxide is more to help the fish get through the cycling period, not something to use every day for the life of the tank. I would imagine it might get them a little high having extra oxygen, which in turn might help them relax (just drawing my own conclusion on that though).

That is very true about the water and the ich parasites... When I talked to him about the ich outbreak I had with the first batch, he actually gave me a bottle of QuICK Cure and explained exactly how to use it - remove the carbon from the filter, up the temp to 84, get 6-8 oz. of water and put the drops in that, advised not to put in 36 drops for 36 gallon tank but put like 32 or 33 so it keeps their stress down, treat for 5-7 days and then put the carbon back in, also said to stop using the hydrogen peroxide while treating. Wow, glad I wrote all that out! Now I won't have to try and recall all of it if ich decides to come back :)

I know it must be frustrating to watch a newbie just seem to run off willy-nilly. :lol: But after thinking about it, I did everything I was supposed to do exactly when I was supposed to do it with the first group and they all went belly-up. Figured it couldn't be any worse if I deviated a little and went with my gut. So now we get to see if I'm a total moron or if I get some beginners luck :wink:
 
Moxie, I wouldn't worry about your fish choices too much except for the goldfish, and only because it is a coldwater (rather than tropical) fish. In my 1st tank I kept 2 blue gouramis with 3 mollies. My newbie mistakes caused an ich outbreak and all these fish have since gone to the big tank in the sky, but while they were alive I never had any aggression problems between the gouramis and mollies. I really hope everything works out for you this time, like I said it took a couple times for my 1st tank to work out too. If it makes you feel any better I still have my 1st cichlid, a blood parrot that survived my ich outbreak. If you still have problems I will send you an Emperor filter cartridge, for real!!! Keep us posted. :D
 
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