Sudden Death at Introduction

[Imogenlucie]

Hi everybody, I'm after some advice.
I have just recently purchased my first aquarium and am new to the field. I set up a 20L (5 gallon) tank with a filter and heater in preparation for a betta fish. At this stage, I did not yet know the importance of cycling the tank prior to fish introduction.
In my tank were two decorations which I pre-rinsed, 3 x live plants and a piece of driftwood. Temperature was set at 25 degrees C. Seachem prime used as water conditioner.
Prior to introduction of my betta fish, water quality tested as follows using the API liquid freshwater testing kit: ammonia 0ppm, nitrite 0ppm, nitrate 0ppm. pH = 7.0. GH = approx .140-200ppm (we have slightly hard water in South Australia).
After spending 1.5 hours slowly acclimatising my betta to the new tank, by floating the bag for 30 minutes (with bag open, did not know at the time it's better to keep bag closed), then adding a small amount of my tank water every 10-15 minutes until pH levels matched, I introduced my betta to the new tank. Within 4 hours he had died. This has happened now with a total of three introductions over the course of the past two weeks.
I'm now more educated in tank cycling and am currently performing a fishless cycle before I attempt another introduction. After the first two deaths, ammonia was still reading at 0ppm. After the third death, ammonia was reading at 0.25ppm.
I'm just wondering if a small ammonia spike could be the cause of such sudden death in my tank due to it not being properly cycled, or whether there is another factor I am not considering contributing to such rapid death in these guys.
Feeling a little disheartened and scared to try again, any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[Autumnsky]

Yes, this would be traumatizing. Making you too worried to try it again.

.25 ammonia shouldn't effect the fish with acclimating him and wondering about what your water department puts in the water.

Have you tested the water straight from the tap?

Is the fish store in the same town? Have the same water? Sometimes they use filtering systems.

What have they said about having 2 dead Betta fish previously?

Is there a chemical which you use to sanitize your hands, medication, bug spray, sunscreen, lotion?

Can the fish store give you what their parameters are? I have used feeder shrimp to test water after a problem I had with my towns water.

What size is the tank?

 

[Imogenlucie]

Water straight from the tap is reading as 0ppm ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.

I bought the betta's from two separate stores in Adelaide. One aquarium store and one was just petbarn. Unfortunately I'm unsure what water source they are using, but I can ask.

I have talked to employees at both stores who also tested my water. They could find nothing wrong with the water quality and with my set up unfortunately.

I've been wracking my brain trying to think of any contaminants I could have accidentally introduced to the tank. The only think I can think of is that the first day I filled the brand new tank, I used a cloth below the water line on the inside of the tank to remove a small marking. We think this cloth MAY have been used with glass cleaner in the past, but can't be sure.

I'll ask the store about their water parameters and see if that will provide any insight, but I have bought from two completely separate stores. I'm convinced there's somehow a contaminate in the system. We could also have washed hands with soap and not long after reached in to the tank. Would this be enough to introduce harmful toxins?

The tank size is 20L (5 gallons).

 

[Autumnsky]

The cleaning cloth probably wouldn't have done anything. but it IS possible, yet unlikely.

You may want to take out all the items, and I might clean them with baking soda and economy priced vinegar, white or apple cider. and rinse rinse rinse all of the things including the glass and inside under the rim of the tank. Also needs extra rinsing as well.

Start again.

With the smaller Betta tank, using spring water from the store might be an option. Just to see that you can keep a fish alive in it.

You may want to use double the drops of Prime. In case the water has chloramine or some similar type heavy duty type chemical.

I might look online and see if your water supplier has a list of what they use to treat the water with. And ask if someone who might know from the treatment department if there are things they put in the water which would be a danger to fish.

My local water is good but I killed an entire tank of appx 150 specialty dwarf shrimp with tap water.

The water company decided to use an alternate water intake pipe and did special water treatment to kill off all the germs with a heavy duty germ killer and there was some mixed with the water that time frame and it wasn't able to be treated with the Prime (I always double dose for chloramine sometimes used by the water department) to make the chemical non lethal.

I would also get some additional info from the pet stores you got fish from and see if they might have any insight.

TDS, total dissolved solids can be a big deal. In a fish tank system they may have a heavy load of TDS and your water didn't / or the other way around. A huge difference can affect a fish.

But also that is why you try acclimating the fish.

Getting the tank water and the water like the store similar is very helpful.

The link at the bottom in my signature, is helpful in learning about cycling and a variety of useful and important for fish keeping.

 

[Imogenlucie]

Thanks again for your reply!

I read your mind and have already started stripping the tank and cleaning absolutely everything. After several days, I'll start again with spring water only and perform a fishless cycle for several weeks until complete.
Once my cycle is complete, would it be a good idea to test my water first with a species like feeder shrimp as you said you've done in the past?

It would be very interesting to know if the problem was coming from our local water source!

 

[Autumnsky]

Yes, I would test it. Maybe a snail if there's one you'd want to keep. My grass / ghost shrimp started with 6 but a couple basically died on the way home. The shrimp used to test, lived and they bred babies for several years.

 

[Saveless]

Do you have a thermometer? Some smaller tanks can get heated too hot real fast if they have a lid and a heater that is not adjustable.

If the fish perish very rapidly this could be the cause. Basically being cooked.

I had to learn this the hard way

 

[Caliban07]

I can only get fish from one of my three local stores because of the issues mentioned by autumnsky.

When I add fish from the two other stores they get sick and die. When I add them from the store around the corner they never get sick. In fact I’ve never had a sick fish from there even though it’s a worn down mom and pop store with less than ideal practices compared with the other two.

I use a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter to track changes in the solutes in my tank. It doesn’t tell you what they are but it does tell you if you have more or less than you did before.

It measures a value in parts per million. My tap water reads a TDS value of less the 100 ppm

When I measure the TDS value of the bags of water the fish from the mom and pop store around the corner the water is the same.

When I measure the bags of water from the two rogue stores the are in excess of 800 ppm.

My hypothesis is that the two water chemistry’s are so vastly different that the fish cannot regulate the change efficiency and their osmoregulatory systems are overwhelmed causing internal damage.

 

[SteffeyJ]

When I first started my tank with 'fishless cycling' I waited almost 2.5- 3 months and I took water to be tested at a big chain store. They said water tested fine. (I didn't have my own -API Master test kit- yet at this time.) So I took what they said and got 4 guppies and they all died instantly... then a month later 4 WCMM.. they didnt even make it one day!!
Come to find out, my tank had never REALLY cycled.
After I bought the test kit, it changed everything!!
My boyfriend randomly came home with 2 HUGE mystery snails after about another month of trying to wait it out.. and after I added the snails, I FINALLY saw some nitrAte!! Good news!! And then the snails even started mating!!
I was dosing with Prime and using a bacteria starter as well and after about 2 months, I had 0 ammonia, 0 nitrIte and about 20 nitrAte...
So I reluctantly went and got 3 fish.
And they are still going! Along with the 2 snails! And have since added more. And now has been 8 months and am VERY happy!
Although, I did consider giving up...
It is never easy when you lose fish..
Especially more than one..
And I felt responsible.. and it was REALLY discouraging..
But I am Sooooo happy I didnt give up. Because my tank is wonderful now!!

So please, dont give up!!
Keep trying...
And maybe give a mystery snail or 2 a shot? I really believe that is what helped to FINALLY truly cycle my tank. Plus having my own test kit was HUGE!!
cant always trust the big box stores. I think they just look for 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite. But you NEED nitrates for your tank to be cycled!!
And honestly, it killed 8 fish I got within 2 months of each other... so be careful!
But sometimes these things happen! There is nothing you could do now, so just keep trying!
I wish you the best of luck!!