Sudden pH drop

[gilpi]

So I noticed in my mbuna tank today fish acting lethargic and slow, no appetite and breathing very hard, checked the pH and it was almost at the lowest reading in the scale around 6.4 maybe lower. Went ahead and do a 50% water change and brought it up to around 7.6 or so, not ideal for these fish but I needed something done right away, two canister filters running and serviced about two weeks ago and I change 50%-80% once or twice a week.
No clue what happened here.
Thought about checking tank #2 and pH was down to 6.0 with fish laying down on their side! Changed half the water as well.
Checked tank #3 and pH read 7.8.
So now I'm thinking tank 1 & 2 had their water changed the same day, tank # 3 didn't.
Now I'm thinking my tap water? I'm in Somerset county NJ and pH here has always been a steady 7.8 to 8.0. Today it reads 7.8.

Anyone gone through this? I didn't check the tap water the day I did the water changes.


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[dalto]

What is the KH of your tap water?

If KH is low than ph will fluctuate. I would check that first.

 

[gilpi]

What is the KH of your tap water?

If KH is low than ph will fluctuate. I would check that first.

I only have a pH test kit, the tester for the KH was way too old and I only used it a couple of times years ago when i first moved to this location. For years I have never checked the KH since the pH has been a steady 7.8 to 8.0 reading, both out of the tap and in the tank, steady as a rock never an issue.
I'm thinking something must have changed with the tap water the last couple of days since the two tanks I did a water change on dropped to the lowest on the pH scale.
Third tank is ok at 7.8pH since I haven't changed that water in a week.

 

[dalto]

If your tap KH is low than you may need to start adding some buffers but I would test it first to ensure that really is the issue.

 

[gilpi]

If your tap KH is low than you may need to start adding some buffers but I would test it first to ensure that really is the issue.

Buffers like Epsom salt and sodium bicarbonate?

 

[dalto]

Buffers like Epsom salt and sodium bicarbonate?

Yes, among many other substances.

The good news is that it is pretty easy to raise kh and ph. Lowering it is the hard part.

 

[gilpi]

Yes, among many other substances.

The good news is that it is pretty easy to raise kh and ph. Lowering it is the hard part.

Thanks, very much appreciated.

I for one hate using buffers but raising pH and keeping it there shouldn't be too hard.

I'm just gathering information and wonder what you'd recommend?
I'm set on using a mixture that many African cichlids hobbyists use which is a mixture of baking soda, Epsom salt and marine aquarium salt.

 

[dalto]

I think you need to figure out what your water is like first. Are both gh and kh low or is it just kh?

If it is only kh than baking soda should be enough to raise both ph and kh to an appropriate level. If you also need to add gh than your mix might be more appropriate.

 

[DragonFish71]

I had this problem in my older tanks. I added crushed coral and haven't had a crash since. I just rinse it and put it in a clean media bag or panty hose leg then put it in the filter.

Google "old tank syndrome". Your tank can no longer buffer pH.

 

[gilpi]

I had this problem in my older tanks. I added crushed coral and haven't had a crash since. I just rinse it and put it in a clean media bag or panty hose leg then put it in the filter.

Google "old tank syndrome". Your tank can no longer buffer pH.

I appreciate the advice but far from old tank syndrome here!
Old tank syndrome refers to a tank that has being through very low maintenance over a long period of time.
I actually get beat up in this forum for promoting lots of big water changes, my tanks get a 50% to 80% water change weekly sometimes twice a week and filters get serviced regularly gravel gets a good vacuum as well.

The pH lowered overnight from close to 8.0 to almost 6.0 and happened right after a water change, first time this happens in years using the same water source.

Again, I appreciate your help and everyone else's. Just trying to figure it all out, had I not checked the tanks this morning I think I would have had at least one whole tank wiped out.


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[gilpi]

So last I checked, my tap water was down again from around 7.6-7.8 this morning to around 6.8-7.0 this evening.
Pretty weird, I'll be getting a new pH, KH & GH test kit tomorrow and will post the readings.
Anyone ever have this issue before?


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[Noviceafter2yea]

I had the hardest time raising my ph until I added baking soda. Word of caution, I would under dose to be on the safe side and gradually increase. The first time I did it, the directions said to do a teaspoon per cup of water, dissolved then added to tank. After a half hour, repeat. Repeat a third time. DON'T follow what I just said. Do better research. It worked, through the roof - fortunately, lots of water changes helped lower it, but it was too big of a change. That is why I am suggesting being conservative on the baking soda:water mixture.

 

[Delapool]

So last I checked, my tap water was down again from around 7.6-7.8 this morning to around 6.8-7.0 this evening.
Pretty weird, I'll be getting a new pH, KH & GH test kit tomorrow and will post the readings.
Anyone ever have this issue before?


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My tap water has lower kh over summer (~3) compared to winter (~5) and ph can drop if not careful. The tank temp is usually higher as well and speeding everything up I assume.

 

[gilpi]

Thanks noviceafter and delapool.
Two of my tanks went down to around 6.0 after the water change. The African tank was easy to bring up to a safe level with very small portions of baking soda and Epsom salt.
Now in the other tank I have a pair of discus, some might say a low pH is great for them but when they've been raised in a pH of 7.8, a drop to 6.0 is a shock, they were on their side breathing hard so I slowly adjusted their water to 7.0 and perked up.
I guess I'll be keeping a closer look at the tap water from now on, this is a sure quick way to wipe out a tank or two, imagine people with multiple tanks.

 

[Delapool]

Soooo, would you say it is ph (and kh) drop sending them into shock? I'm guessing not much else would of changed for gh or TDS possibly?

 

[Caliban07]

Thanks noviceafter and delapool.
Two of my tanks went down to around 6.0 after the water change. The African tank was easy to bring up to a safe level with very small portions of baking soda and Epsom salt.
Now in the other tank I have a pair of discus, some might say a low pH is great for them but when they've been raised in a pH of 7.8, a drop to 6.0 is a shock, they were on their side breathing hard so I slowly adjusted their water to 7.0 and perked up.
I guess I'll be keeping a closer look at the tap water from now on, this is a sure quick way to wipe out a tank or two, imagine people with multiple tanks.

Try this site:

http://reef.diesyst.com/cf/alkalinitycf.html

Also smaller water changes will help to minimise drastic water chemistry fluctuations and help to keep water chemistry stable whilst providing fresh water and removing toxins.

A 30% water change may not have altered the ph so much that the fish where able to feel the effect.

I agree you definitely need to try and find out the reason for this change.

That is nearly 64x lower on the ph scale and a huge change in acidity.

Hope you find out what happened.


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[gilpi]

Soooo, would you say it is ph (and kh) drop sending them into shock? I'm guessing not much else would of changed for gh or TDS possibly?

If the fish have been thriving and growing at a good rate, water is always a stable 7.8 and after a big water change the pH dropped to around 6.0, I would say that the pH drop put them into shock, as to why the drop , I'm not sure yet, that remains the mystery as I haven't checked the KH, last night the tap water's pH was down again, I'll check the KH tonight.
As for TDS if you're referring to poor tank maintenance, I probably over maintain, with massive water changes weekly or bi weekly.
TDS in the tap water? I wouldn't know since I don't have a tester.

 

[gilpi]

Try this site: http://reef.diesyst.com/cf/alkalinitycf.html Also smaller water changes will help to minimise drastic water chemistry fluctuations and help to keep water chemistry stable whilst providing fresh water and removing toxins. A 30% water change may not have altered the ph so much that the fish where able to feel the effect. I agree you definitely need to try and find out the reason for this change. That is nearly 64x lower on the ph scale and a huge change in acidity. Hope you find out what happened. Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

I truly agree with you. For years I took it for granted since water here has been so consistent and all of the sudden it's fluctuating.
Wait, did I just say I agree with you?
Argh!!!

 

[Caliban07]

Haha. It sounds like the water company have altered something. They can do this at will. I remember what the ph from my tap sky rocketed in to the 8's from mid 7's. I checked my tank and it was still in the mid 7's. Who knows what they do and how long the effects remain?

You can pull up your water quality report on the internet and see if they announced any changes although it's unlikely they would.

I've been known to phone my supplier on a few occasions and they were really helpful.


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[gilpi]

How did you calculate the 64x lower on the pH scale?
The African cichlids are resilient tough fish, I acted quickly in bringing up the pH and right away is was like they revived, they were all in sad shape with their gills practically coming out in a rapid breathing motion some laying on the bottom.
I'm not one to obsess over water parameters, this one has me going though.
Checked the local water supplier's web site as you suggested and nothing current, all readings are from 2013 with no alerts.