Talking... Endlers Livebearers!

[Autumnsky]

Endlers / Poecilia wingei are a great fish to keep.

John Endler was responsible in bringing this species to the aquarium trade, originally identified and discovered in Venezuela by Franklin Bond in 1937.

More info here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poecilia_wingei

They are strong fish which can adapt to a wide range of parameters. Some strains are highly line bred and maybe more delicate in water parameter needs, so caution may be needed in special care.

Males are small compared to the females which can be 2 times larger. Males have bright color (a few exceptions) with an interesting variety of patterns, from spots to stripes both vertical and horizontal.

There are classifications to know in Endlers:

N Class - Known documented collection site and not mixed with other collection sites /fish.

P Class - A group not mixed with other varieties of Endlers but not known or not documented collection site, no paperwork.

K Class - Hybrid Endlers, mixed with other Endler varieties

(if you have any other standards not included here, let me know and I can edit it)

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This is a fish which I had my childhood experience grandparents little farm, of a sheep water trough probably 4 feet long and 2 feet tall, FULL of colorful glittering little fish I could grab with my hands! Guess which pet I wanted to get?!?

A GREAT experience which has brought me back to my roots /childhood in keeping Guppies and Endlers now.

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It is curious that many people keep Guppies or Endlers but do not spend much time talking about these fish. (And Yes, the females are always pregnant )

So here we can spend some time reviewing our interests and experiences and questions!

Please feel free to add a link if you have a thread or start one about YOUR own tank and Endlers. I feel like since Guppies are similar they can be included.

 

[danny291]

one day i might get endlers

 

[Autumnsky]

They are so beautiful. Easy to care for. You should get some. By just getting some males, and no females, you can enjoy the color and no excess babies.

Active fish which enjoy a little bit of food every time you walk by!

 

[danny291]

yes they're a smaller alternative to guppies and they don't eat babies which is great if you want to breed them

 

[earhtmother]

I am becoming an Endler addict, only the lack of breeders in my vicinity keeps them from being the majority in my fish collection. These are the first fish other than ģoldfish that I remember from my childhood, specifically a 30ish gallon tank in the hall at school full of *guppys*. I was always disappointed when I was fish shopping later that I could never find the awesome colorful *guppies* I remembered from school. Now that I have found out they were Endlers not Guppies my 20 low is filling fast and I think they will upgrading to a 35 or 55 when I can arrange it.

 

[Autumnsky]

Fun fish! We found Endlers in the ditches sometimes when I was a kid. People must have put them there when they were over breeding.

When I was a kid also, Guppies with giant delta tails were the popular ones. When I started looking for Guppies around 20 years ago (yikes), I was sorely disappointed when the little fish at the lfs were so puny.

The Guppies are better nowadays, than 20 years ago and 20 years ago there were no Endlers I recall for sale at the lfs. The 1975 era Guppies in southern California were poppin! There must have been a good breeder connected to that store.

 

[danny291]

yea its hard to find breeders or store that have endlers in Australia since people mostly only want guppies down here

 

[earhtmother]

So I understand the Endlers *class* system but is/are there a good site(s) with pics ofcourse, for the colour variations? What makes them a Tiger or Black Bar etc?????

 

[Autumnsky]

My Endler "colony" (not figured out what they actually are yet) males were juveniles and not colored up when I got them at the CAS mini auction.

Now they are getting really flashy! Very excited to get the colony into the big tank (80G) probably tomorrow. They are in the 20G long QT tank on the floor in a corner and I can't get any good pics - they are to busy moving quickly, or see them that well.

 

[earhtmother]

I can't get decent pics of the little buggers, they're just too darn fast. I'm hoping that when I move them to the 30g today I can get a decent pic or two. Picked up some Scarlets and Blues from a girlfriend who is starting up a small home based aquatic business along with some more Tigers, although I tend to think of them as Snakeskin because of my Guppy experience [emoji854]

 

[Flyfisher]

My opinion. Endlers should have a male tank and a female tank.
Only one or two females should ever be allowed to be pregnant. As the females drop 3 batches of fry from one encounter with a male . Carefully separating the fry will mean you never have to many fish and you will never need to buy fish again.

 

[Autumnsky]

In my tank, the little fish older than fry but, to me, perhaps what are called juvenile - younger than I think they would be pregnant, are already gravid. The ones just bigger than fry. you can not tell in the tank swimming around if male or female yet.

That is why I now try the - little fish not gravid, it is a male so far the method is working.

Unfortunately the large Congo Tetras might consider this size a quick snack, so I wait just a little while until over a half inch. The Congos will be moving to the 80G now that it is getting cleared up and ready for fish.

In the grow out tank there are females and males of all colors and types to get the male Guppy and Endlers I want for the 72G nano and small fish tank. Which is to have maybe 50 colorful males, nearing 30 already.

Intend to keep my favorites in there and pass the rest on to the CAS club once we can meet up again. My plan made good sense when I would be able to off load the extras, easily to people with experience caring for fish, and not a random CL shopper. (no offense CL)

In an ideal breeding situation you have the best proven females with the most ideal males and get your best babies of course.

earhtmother, those fish sound beautiful. Can't wait to (maybe) see pics.

Breeding takes time but also less expensive than collecting every pretty $3-8 male fish you see in the fish store.

 

[Autumnsky]

Disappointed, in a way. Though they are both very pretty fish.

Found two distinctively different males.

These are the ones which although in these pics are very pale and don't have their usual full color you can see the 2 red dots to the rear and the angle of the black bar some specimens have this going into their dorsal, with the neon yellow green, look like El Tigre.

No award winning pics here, but you can get an idea.

And then these which I am not sure other than red chest Orchid version. No clue really
**weird, I have just seen 4 of my photos pop up on google though they aren't chestnut pics

Well I placed all the male Endlers (directly above pics) with the dots and red color into the 72G male tank.

Placed 3 males and the rest, appx 12 females into the 80G to make a trial of the tank and see that things go well.

Have the 5 other males for sure going to go into the 72G for awhile until they finish coloring up, and will put back the El Tigre-ish looking best 3 males into the 80G eventually and remove the less good looking ones.

Leaving the other fry and females in the 20G QT for now. But maybe tonight move the mommas and juveniles all over, leaving the babies for awhile.

Although could add them to the mixed grow out tank.

I have 3 females with very slight yellow or black shadow color on tail. Have read the El Tigre females can often have some blackish in the females and on dorsal fin.

Since none of them are specialty N or K class it isn't as important, though I do not think they have been mixed with Guppy, so it might be better to keep the females separated / Endlers only still.

So really just a mixed up group of endlers and not a k-class colony as I was hoping for.


The Nebula Endler #1 fish is amazing - it is the center top fish in case you don't want to watch the video.
Saw this link and wow some really nice fish there!

 

[earhtmother]

WOW that Nebula is GORGEOUS

 

[Autumnsky]

Don't know if he sells, but he doesn't ship according to a post I read when he was asked.

 

[Autumnsky]

Anyone around right now? Have a quick question!

 

[Autumnsky]

I just took all the Endlers out of the 20G QT.

There are about 45 newborn to week or so fry should I lump them into the mass grow out or go ahead and keep them in the 80G? Add Endler only group to the general mixed Guppy and Endlers group.

The only possible problem could be the over flow into the back chamber. there are filter guard which makes it a cross section and filter pad behind that, probably not that many would accidentally get in there, the other group has not been hanging out anywhere near that section.

Keep them together because not much chance of a loss?

Or into the grow out.

Since all the other probably 30 females are also pregnant it seems silly to worry too much, although the Congos will likely keep the population under control in the future.

 

[emeraldking]

Well, there are 2 types of El tigre females. One with a dark dorsal and one with a clear dorsal. Most of my El tigre females have a dark dorsal. Both reproduce normal El tigre male offspring but the ones with a dark dorsal will have male offspring with more black pattern and it will be more intense black in comparison to the males that came from a female with a clear dorsal.

 

[Autumnsky]

Well, there are 2 types of El tigre females. One with a dark dorsal and one with a clear dorsal. Most of my El tigre females have a dark dorsal. Both reproduce normal El tigre male offspring but the ones with a dark dorsal will have male offspring with more black pattern and it will be more intense black in comparison to the males that came from a female with a clear dorsal.

Thank you! I actually can see the fish now that they are at eye level and will post a couple pics. There are definitely ones with dark markings and all pale females!

Here

 

[Autumnsky]

El Tigre or something like that!