Tank help needed

[confusedfishmom]

Hi I've had 2 deaths of healthy angels in 2 months. 40 gal tank. 3 angels and 1 pleco. All about 8 months old. All has been well, until 1.5 mth ago one angel
died. Yesterday 2nd angel died. I noticed that he was stating at the bottom of the tank and not eating. Very unusual. Swimming from one side of the tank to the other, almost like he was confused. Dead one day later. His gills were red, but that's also how they look normally. I'm down to one angel and one pleco. I'd really like to keep them alive. I'm thinking intestinal parasites? No other signs of anything. Tank parameters are good. Temp at 80-82. Diet dried bloodworms and flake food alternated.

Not sure what I should do with the 2 current fish. Should I treat my tank for parasites? Chalk it up to bad luck? These fish were very healthy and then died within 1-2 days of noticing they were sick. My gut tells me something is going on in my tank. But I have no way of knowing what. How long should I wait to restock?

 

[Glene20]

Im not too sure whats goi g on in your tank but I wouldn't even think about rwstocking untill you know your tank is safe. Waste of money and a waste of life to fish. Hope you figure it out soon

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[GouramiLover]

Any other symptoms? Like bloating, spots or bumps? Discoloration? Lifting of scales? Poop color?/consistency change? Etc.

Is it possible they were just badly bred? Where did they come from?

 

[confusedfishmom]

I'm not in any hurry to restock but I had 1-2 months between deaths so it's especially odd. I don't know if I need to wait 2 months before stocking or what. I hate it because they were my favorites. The last one ate from my hand.

 

[confusedfishmom]

Any other symptoms? Like bloating, spots or bumps? Discoloration? Lifting of scales? Poop color?/consistency change? Etc.

Is it possible they were just badly bred? Where did they come from?

No. Nothing at all. But I'm not an expert in this area. Definitely no obvious issues. No ich. No spots. Nothing external. The only thing I noticed after he died his belly was a purplish color where the rest of him was still the normal clear/color area. They came from the same lot at lfs, so breeding is possible but I really think it's something else.

 

[confusedfishmom]

We do have excessively high ph 8.4. It hadn't been an issue so far but perhaps?

 

[confusedfishmom]

Let's say for arguments sake that my fish died of gill flukes. I have 2 fish left that seem perfectly healthy. We did a 50% WC. What else should I do? Should I treat the tank with API General cure, 250 mg metronidazole and 75 mg praz? Will it affect my pleco? Or is water change and conditions enough to eradicate the issue since the others don't seem affected?

 

[Andy Sager]

Just taking an educated stab at this: Based on your water parameters being good as you say, 2 deaths over a month apart are not from the same disease or condition. No other external signs but the darkened area of the stomach region is a sign. The food regimen should be a little more expansive IMO. (I'm an Angel breeder ) Too much protein with the bloodworms without much vegetable matter or bulk to help with eliminations. This may have been part of the cause of the discoloration in the stomach area. But here's the potentially bad news, a typical post mortem sign of TB in fish is a brownish colored stomach region. If this is the case, you need to be treating with an antibiotic not a parasitic medication.
Before you just treat the tank on a hunch, I'd like to know the exact water parameters to see what may have caused this. The high PH should not be an issue as I have some Angels breeding in that level PH as my well water here on FL is very high as well.

Hope this helps

 

[confusedfishmom]

Ammonia was .25, ranges between 0-.25 (once it got up to .5). Tank set up about 6 months. All fish introduced at the same time from same lfs about 6 mths ago. (Originally I had 3 baby angels and the small pleco). Nitrites were 0. Nitrates were 5. (Edited) Ph is 8.4 consistently. I test weekly and do 25% WC every week.

I do think my last dead angel may have been flashing toward the end. I thought it was just awkward swimming b/c he was bumping into things but he may have been trying to rub/flash.

I have one angel left, what should I be feeding him now? Assuming he's not going to be infected next.

 

[Andy Sager]

Ammonia was .25, ranges between 0-.25 (once it got up to .5). Tank set up about 6 months. All fish introduced at the same time from same lfs about 6 mths ago. (Originally I had 3 baby angels and the small pleco). Nitrites were 0. Nitrates were 5. Ammonia 8.4 consistently. I test weekly and do 25% WC every week.

I do think my last dead angel may have been flashing toward the end. I thought it was just awkward swimming b/c he was bumping into things but he may have been trying to rub/flash.

I have one angel left, what should I be feeding him now? Assuming he's not going to be infected next.

Flashing is not always a sign of parasites. Rubbing is. (Yes, there is a difference) Fish with internal problems will flash but not constantly rub an area.
I'm assuming your ammonia is not 8.4 but your pH is. You should not be having an ammonia issue with that few fish in that amount of water so we can move on.
With those parameters, my hunch is it was diet induced. The fact that it took so long between deaths rules out a communal disease to me. I would be hesitant to treat the entire tank. If you are overly concerned, I would medicate the fish in a smaller hospital tank ( 10 gal is fine) and strip and bleach out the main tank and filter(s) and restart it clean. This way you will know that you are putting the fish back into a clean environment and anything they may catch from here on out is not from a pre-existing situation. ( That would be a drastic step in my opinion but you have to be comfortable with the results.)
As for feeding, I use the Omega One freshwater flakes in the morning, freeze dried tubifex worms or bloodworms in the afternoon and follow that with a meal of frozen brine shrimp for their last meal of the day. I'm not concerned about the brine shrimp not being as nutritious as other foods because I am using it solely to flush out their systems. They get good food the other feedings so it's okay to have the shrimp. I've been using this formula for many years only the flakes, in the old days, were a different (more inferior because we had no choice) brand and the tubifex were live because we could get them from a local distributor. Today, with the feeding I just laid out, my fish are leaving me a poop load of poop to clean out of their sponge filters and loads of babies. I have to assume that it's still working for them.

Hope this helps

 

[confusedfishmom]

I'll read up on flashing/rubbing. Not sure of the difference. Yes, ph is 8.4 NOT ammonia. Brain dead today!

Thanks for the feeding tips. Hard to believe that diet could do that. . I feed them once a day and alternate flake food one day with blood worms the next. I will try some other alternatives. Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

 

[Andy Sager]

I'll read up on flashing/rubbing. Not sure of the difference. Yes, ph is 8.4 NOT ammonia. Brain dead today!

Thanks for the feeding tips. Hard to believe that diet could do that. . I feed them once a day and alternate flake food one day with blood worms the next. I will try some other alternatives. Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

I'll save you some reading Rubbing is when the fish picks a certain area of their body and scratches it against an object in the tank. Flashing is the arbitrary quick rub against anything in the tank. If you've ever seen a fish scratch, you'll notice the difference immediately. Plus, they get that look of relief on their faces too.

To help explain the reason why the feeding may be the issue, with feeding only once a day, you are not really giving the fish enough nutrition to grow in a healthy way. It's like you only eating 1 meal a day. You will grow, but not as well as if you had 3 meals a day. In the fish's case, there are all kinds of water born diseases and parasites that may be present in the tank but your fish's immune system, when healthy, can keep them from effecting your fish. Over time however, if the nutritional level doesn;t increase, the fish then loses the ability to fend off the different organisms.
That's really the really short answer for this. Your fish should be fed a few meals each day. If these were wild fish we were talking about, I'm sure someone here would say that "they don;t eat everyday in the wild" which, while true, does not take into account that the food they are feeding on in the wild is much healthier for them than what we are feeding in the tank. Your fish, most likely, were raised in a tank and are used to being fed numerous times per day. The psychological effects of the lack of food I'm sure, also plays into their longevity in one's tank.

Hope this helps